Mamiya 120/4 Macro

[robmac]

In various forums I keep seeing references to the Mamiya 120/4 manual focus macro. Phrases like 'scary sharp', the lens being a 'must have' for Mamiya shooters, etc.m repeatedly come up.

With no real MTF or photodo data on Mamiya lenses out there, my curiosity has been tickled. Is the lens a sleeper or over-rated?

I know it as a floating element and ED glass, but as a baseline, for those that have used it , how would you compare it against say the CZ 100 MP, the Leica 100 APO, EF 100, Nikon 105 VR, etc.,?

 

[Jack]

It's phenomenal. I saw report somewhere that rated it as the single best MF lens ever tested, but that was a few years ago and things may be different now. Regardless, it's reputation is well deserved

 

[robmac]

Interesting. I am just amazed that MTF or test data for Mamiya glass, once so popular, just doesn't seem to exist.

 

[Dale Allyn]

Jack, has is it reputed to compare to the new 120mm macro "D"?

 

[robmac]

I think (don't quote me) the primary purpose of the upgrade was essentially chipping the lens for communication with the camera/back. Got curious and did some digging and the impression I'm getting is that very few if any optical forumla changes were made. Again, just an impression from the various material I have managed to find.

Jack - that is saying something considering the reputation the Contax 645 120 macro has.

 

[Dale Allyn]

I think (don't quote me) the primary purpose of the upgrade was essentially chipping the lens for communication with the camera/back. Got curious and did some digging and the impression I'm getting is that very few if any optical forumla changes were made. Again, just an impression from the various material I have managed to find.

Jack - that is saying something considering the reputation the Contax 645 120 macro has.

This lens is on my short list, and this is consistent with what I've read. However I have yet to find any direct comparisons b/n the versions. I've sort of come to the conclusion that it'll be pretty good and that's probably all I need to know – other than where to get the money for the lens, of course.

 

[Jack]

Here is what I have heard: The CURRENT 645AF Manual Focus version is the same optical formula as the immediate all manual predecessor. Contacts were added to allow electronic aperture control and normal metering with AF-D bodies. There is a new "digital" version coming out soon the will be auto focus as well -- but whether or not it will be the same optical formula, I do not know...

 

[Dale Allyn]

Thanks for clarification, Jack. The box of the current model has the "645 AF" imprinted on it, so I was thinking that the auto-focus (i.e. "digital") were starting to show up. My error was in thinking the AF indicated that this was the auto-focusing newest version.

Auto focus is not of interest to me for macro work, but it might be nice to have if one were to use the lens for portraits, etc. Still, if the arrival of the newest version will push the recent manual-focus model down in price I'll likely go with that.

 

[thsinar]

it is very unlikely that the new version have a new optical design, knowing that (depending on the lens type/construction) it needs roughly and minimum 1 1/2 years to design a new lens, some types more than 2 years.

Thierry

Here is what I have heard: The CURRENT 645AF Manual Focus version is the same optical formula as the immediate all manual predecessor. Contacts were added to allow electronic aperture control and normal metering with AF-D bodies. There is a new "digital" version coming out soon the will be auto focus as well -- but whether or not it will be the same optical formula, I do not know...

 

[yaya]

I've been using the 120mm/f4 since 2002 and can state that in some situations it'll put to shame the Schneider Digitar 120mm Macro as well as the Rodenstock 100HR, both known to be very good lenses.

I hope they are not going to ruin it by adding AF element/s.....

Yair

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I needed one of these this morning actually. Yair I think it is just more electrical contacts to match the new bodies. But I am not sure on this. It is confusing buying one because there are several versions of it. Since when did Mamiya become like leica with all these versions.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Yair nice to see you posting , hope to see more of you here. Any tidbits on upcoming Photokinia you can throw some crumbs out for us.:ROTFL::ROTFL:

 

[Paul2660]

Question for Jack or Guy,

The history of the lens, is from what I can tell, 3 basic versions.

1. The original manual focus, with the manual aperture ring, but auto diaphram switch, which I thought means that you can have the lens wide open for focus, then hit the switch and it will stop down for metering. But from certain descriptions, I have read that the switch just turns the lens aperture to full manual or auto (auto like how the 24 TSE works on the Canon). Do either of you know exactly how the aperture works?

2. 2nd version that had no manual aperature ring, so I assume it works like the Canon 24 TSE, wide open for foucs but stops down when you hit the shutter to the F stop set by the camera

3. Third version is the same as number 2 but has the Digital name. I have read that this is just software in the lens to allow it to work better with a digital back, not sure.

There seem to be alot of them on the market at times, but I have held of purchase since I am still not sure how the 1st version's aperture works. I would rather not want to stop down manually and can't tell if that is required or not with it.

Jack's info on the AF version is interesting, but if it prices like all the rest of the new glass 3 to 4K, I will have to wait and get a used one.


Thanks
Paul

 

[schweikert]

I think there needs to be some clarification from Jack's post.

The Mamiya "D" 120mm F4 macro is already out and has been for a while. They are roughly $2K. Ahmuay is the handle for the ebay seller who sometimes has these for around $1350. At that price they are most likely not USA warranty versions, but a great price though for new. All 3 versions of the lens are manual focus. No actual autofocus. The focusing is so "long" from infinity to close-up that AF is generally not an option.

The oldest M645 version with aperture ring must be manually stopped down for use on the AF bodies. The AF bodies have no manual aperture control lever for any lens made for the M645 series.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Paul I am actually somewhat confused on it. Be nice if we had info from Mamiya on this and what changes actually are. i don't think the glass has changed but they confuse you with AF . There not AF lenses per say. They won't auto focus

 

[Jack]

Exactly -- there are three versions total, first is all manual, the second one is labeled "D" not for digital, but to work on the AF-D body and is manual focus but electronic auto aperture -- and those two share the same optical formula -- and then the third is the yet-to-be-released AF DIGITAL version, optical formula as of yet unknown...

 

[schweikert]

Jack,

Where did you hear of this super secret yet to be released 120 macro lens?

That would be the fourth version.

 

[Dale Allyn]

I was getting confused as well, and only found info regarding the January 2008 announcement and release of the "D" version. That's MF with new CPU, and I believe the same one that John referenced in post #14.

The Mamyia site has a news release and PDF document that discusses this 2008 model. I've read elsewhere of the auto-focus "Digital" version that is "coming", but I'm thinking that it's a mythical lens based on confusion over the AF(D) nomenclature.

 

[Jack]

Okay, then I am mistaken and the third one is already released and is the AF-D, but is still manual focus? I thought they announced an AF version a while back and remember reading somewhere it had been updated for digital backs and was AF, due out after the 150/2.8 and 45-90 started shipping.

 

[harmsr]

Jack - I remember reading the same thing, that a newer yet version of the 120 Macro was coming with auto focus.