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Love the one your with...

docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
I have been reading the threads in this new forum and want to congratulate Jack and Guy on the great start they have made. It seems that in such a short time many good people have joined and are posting.

I have recently received the email from Hasselblad about the upgrade paths that are available to present owners...even those locked out of the H3 bodies.So I have been thinking about all of the various options...this back, that body etc. I don't shoot professionally so it doesn't matter if I have the fastest autofocus or the biggest file...or for that matter what sound then lens or shutter makes. However, I find that the more I read online the less comfortable I feel with my equipment...until I go out and shoot it again.

In passing, I have a Hasselblad H1 upgraded to H2 with Phase One P20 back and film backs, Leica M8 and MP, Mamiya 7 and Nikon F6. I use a 343 Hasselblad scanner when I feel like losing a few very precious hours sitting at the computer.

As the Christmas holiday approaches, in an attempt to mollify the ever-present desire to add an ALPA TC and Schneider lenses I have been shooting a few pictures that I would like to share as an introduction to the forum. The old saying "Want what you have, rather than have what you want" gets lost with the current holiday marketing push.

By the way, the thread topic refers to cameras and equipment.

All the following are H2/P20/80HC...
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With regards,

Bob Moore
 
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Jim Stone

Workshop Member
Bob,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for posting the very nice images. It's great to see someone else who is interested in the Alpa !! Your H2 and P20 works nicely. Have you been pleased with it? I've been lurking, especially on this MF section and other forums, for all of the information about the new HY6 systems and other backs. Very confusing at the moment.
Like you, I am certainly not a professional, but since I don't already own a digital back, don't want to make a mistake. I own an M7, M8, Canon 1 ds Mark 11, and a Contax 645 and a couple of lenses, but am really wanting an Alpa. However, since the digital backs are the most expensive part of a system, I've been waiting to see how the MF back issue is going to shake out. I've seen, though not worked with Phase One backs, and have been very impressed. Am getting a demo with the Alpa next week I hope. Then may check out Leaf in Atlanta. But, if you could use one back on a couple of cameras (Alpa and ?), I'm not sure I should rule out the H3D. Just not certain the H3D back will work on the Alpa.

As the heading of your thread suggests, love the one you're with.....lucky you, as you have one !! ;) Some of us still have that decision and expense to deal with. :eek: Look forward to seeing more of your images.

Cheers and welcome again,

Jim
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
:ROTFL: Bob great thread , great title and great post . Welcome to GetDpi and please enjoy yourself and have fun.
 

docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Jim,

Thank you for the welcome.

Yes I do like the Phase One back a lot. I did not mention the path that led me to the MFB but it may give you a bit more insight into the process. I had used medium format and large format cameras for years prior to my move to digital. After scanning my Leica trannies and MF/LF negatives at low resolution for a number of years I transitioned from a Nikon D100 to D70 then moved to Canon 1D to 1Ds Mk II and 5D. This move involved extensive use of Leica R and Contax lenses on adapters.

I struggled with the classic situation of adequate resolution but very marginal files from the standpoint of microcontrast and dynamic range...it took too much work in post process to get close to the scans that I had seen from my old Hasselblad V and Zeiss lenses. I finally decided to look for a low cost MFB and camera after reading threads on other forums. Marc Williams , fotografz, repeated showed pictures that had that quality that I knew was lacking in my captures. I knew that he is a photoshop and post process master but respected his view concerning the advantage of large photosite large chip.

I have less that 10K in my H2 Phase 20 and 2 film backs. If you look carefully you can find good value in these systems...take advantage of the upgrade cycle by staying away from the bleeding edge. Marc has mentioned elsewhere that the majority of the advances are incremental in the backs.

With that as background I do have to say that for me the Phase back has been bullet-proof. Very little other than turn it on and set ISO. My H2 communicates well with the back and even though the LCD is marginal to useless in bright light the camera gives a histogram after the file is written to disk that works well for exposure evaluation. I find that I rarely need to clean the back for dust...not the case with trix on the 343 scanner.

The one drawback for the ALPA of Phase backs is also a prime advantage...the Phase One architecture uses a sleep mode...this allows for long battery life, low heat production and negates the need for active cooling. However it means that you must activate the back prior to making an exposure. So you can on tripod trip the shutter recock and fire again within 90 seconds or use a release cable that incorporates a wakeup function. ALPA provides a LARGE left sided handle which does this but while it looks seamless on the WA and SWA it is kind of a kludge on the TC. Leaf and Hasselblad do not need the wakeup cable and may keep the TC size advantage to a better extent. The newest Hasselblad backs will work very well on the ALPAs but some of the H2D backs may not...maybe Marc can comment on this.

Postprocessing software options have their respective advocates...I use C1 CS3 and Flexcolor depending on the application. Lightroom is a great early screening tool for me but I find myself invariably outputting files to CS3 for cropping and sharpening function.

I would love to move to a larger chip but am unsure if I will lose dynamic range if I give up the 8+ micron size photosites of the P20...so a CHF 22 Aptus 22 or P25+ may be the limit. Maybe Marc or someone with indepth experience with both chips can comment.

I will append a file that shows the subtle captures possible with this combination.

Again,

H2/P20/HC80

Regards,

Bob Moore
 
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docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Guy,

Thank you for the warm welcome. Looks like this will be a very good community for sharing and learning.

Respectfully,

Bob Moore
 

Jim Stone

Workshop Member
Bob,

Thanks for the thoughtful post. I'm happy to hear the H3D back will work with the Alpa, as that just adds another option. I am aware of the need to "wake up " the back on an Alpa, but don't see that as a negative since there is no need for speed in shooting landscapes....could even be a positive ! My biggest quandary is which digital back company to go with. While I don't like the closed system Hassy has gone to, it appears that the other manufacturers are heading in that direction also. There is no reason to go into all the details as I know everyone out there sees what is happening. So, the question becomes, which wagon does one tie his horse to? If you go Hassy, you're tied to a tried and true Co. with a complete system. Phase seems to have the largest share of the DB market and then there's the new HY6 systems just hitting the streets. What to do, what to do ! :D Wish I lived closer to NYC to be able to easily see and demo them all. Roadtrip?? Guess for now I'll just keeping lurking and reading AND checking out the used deals. Hopefully we'll get some additional info from some of the real knowledgeable folks out there.

Help !! :eek:

Jim
 

PeterA

Well-known member
G'day Bob,

I am glad to hear you are happy with your Phase One back. It is the back I would have bought IF the nearest dealer/tech support was less than 800 miles away! LOL
Special welcome to another Alpa user as well! Look forward to swapping notes and enjoying your posted images.

Best
Pete
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Hi Bob, and welcome! Great to have you here and my compliments on an outstanding fisrt post ;) Looking forward to the Alpa discussions between you guys, as it sounds like an interesting option for MF digital.

Cheers,
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Hi Bob, welcome. This forum gets better every day.

I'm sure you have read some of the lively discussions about MF digital backs, and all the current hubbub that can fuel the confusion. Even those of us that are aggressively pursuing new areas of MFD photographic invention are hard pressed to get complete information. Not a good state of affairs considering the costs involved.

So, "love the one you're with" is a timely and wise piece of advice.

A few answers to inquiries posted:

Yes, there are Hasselblad H2D/22 cameras that prevent use of both film backs and use of the digital back on other camera platforms. I think these were the beginning attempts at a fully integrated system, and the one I had shot DNG files as opposed to 3Fs.

H2s sporting a CFH/22 meg back (AKA: CFH-132), could use a film back, and the back could be used on a view camera tethered to a computer, or in the field using the new ImageBank ... so I am presuming on an ALPA also.

Any of the CF backs (not CFH with H meaning it's for the H camera) will work cross platform through use of a Hasselblad iAdapter. These backs accept a clip-on battery and are totally portable, (where the CFH is powered by the grip battery on the H camera).

I have used rented Phase One Backs, once owned Kodak ProBacks, and currently shoot with a Hasselblad CFV on 503CW & 203FE; H3D/31 & H3D39 ... plus a Leaf Aptus 75s with Mamiya mount on a RZ & 645 AFD-II. I have not used a Sinar back.

LCDs have been poor on these backs as field work tended to be an after thought compared to studio applications. The exception to this was the Leaf Aptus solution with a LCD as large as the back ... however, poor contrast in open light prevents effective use ... a problem easily remedied with an ingenious clip on bellows hood made by Lee.

The newer generation of some backs are including better LCDs and I am sure Sinar will follow soon.

In the meantime "Love the one you're with" : -)
 

kipling

New member
Hey bob, nice post and welcome.

I'll try and remember this when Canon or Nikon bring out their 31mp battleships that shoot 9fps, have 110 focus points, wifi, live-view and 5 inch swing out LCD's and we Leaf/Phase/Sinar owners are still waiting for our backs to wake up or the software to restart or a Rep. to explain why a line running down the middle of the file or purple blotches are perfectly normal for these 30, 40, 50k cameras. :)

I just hope we don't get trampled to death by the stampede running for the next Nikanon store while lovingly holding our mf-dinasour-cams.

:ROTFL:
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Let's see there Kipling, a Canon 22 meg FF battleship for 8 grand that's softer than my first 30D. A 1DMKII "Battle Cruiser" that can't focus on a moving target except on Ground Hog day IF it's cloudy out. Can't wait to see the 31 meg versions. While the lemmings run off the cliff after one, I stroll the other way taking super high resolution 50 meg plus photos of the herd, and publish 300% crops of their individual expressions as they approach the cliff's edge ... LOL.

H3Ds ... no issues. Yep start up is a bit slower ... but no streaks, blobs, lines, focus issues, horrible WA distortion, CA or soft images. None. :)
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Marc makes a good point... It really begs the question of what is the maximum usable resolution for a full-frame 35mm sensor? I beginning to think somewhere around 16 (net effective) is going to be about as good as it gets; after that, you'll need more sensor real-estate...

Gee, where have I heard that before? LOLOLOLOL!
 

kipling

New member
Let's see there Kipling, a Canon 22 meg FF battleship for 8 grand that's softer than my first 30D. A 1DMKII "Battle Cruiser" that can't focus on a moving target except on Ground Hog day IF it's cloudy out. Can't wait to see the 31 meg versions. While the lemmings run off the cliff after one, I stroll the other way taking super high resolution 50 meg plus photos of the herd, and publish 300% crops of their individual expressions as they approach the cliff's edge ... LOL.

H3Ds ... no issues. Yep start up is a bit slower ... but no streaks, blobs, lines, focus issues, horrible WA distortion, CA or soft images. None. :)
:D you schould switch to nikon marc!

seriously though, imo hassy is the only contender who is doing what needs to be done. there are enough slow hand pita mf solutions out there. i'd love to see mf get within a mile of canon frame rate, iso usability and handling.
i'm very excited to see what comes down the path but i have my doubts about some mfdb contenders making it if they don't get real solid solutions on the table.
but 30+mp, a usable iso 800, high quality lcd, large bright viewfinder, mildly fast af, 1,5 fps, fast, quality lenses that cost less than a car, hand holdable for on location people jobs, usable flash sync, well organized interface and rock solid processing would be well worth 30k.
I'm picking up an h3d 31 this evening to try on a shoot tomorrow...i really hope i love the one i'm with :)
 

fotografz

Well-known member
:D you schould switch to nikon marc!

seriously though, imo hassy is the only contender who is doing what needs to be done. there are enough slow hand pita mf solutions out there. i'd love to see mf get within a mile of canon frame rate, iso usability and handling.
i'm very excited to see what comes down the path but i have my doubts about some mfdb contenders making it if they don't get real solid solutions on the table.
but 30+mp, a usable iso 800, high quality lcd, large bright viewfinder, mildly fast af, 1,5 fps, fast, quality lenses that cost less than a car, hand holdable for on location people jobs, usable flash sync, well organized interface and rock solid processing would be well worth 30k.
I'm picking up an h3d 31 this evening to try on a shoot tomorrow...i really hope i love the one i'm with :)
You may be surprised by the ISO 800 of these new cameras. Both the H3D/31 and 33 meg Leaf Aptus 75s are quite usable. I use them at weddings @ 800.

Both of my H3Ds are hand hold-able IMO, and I do it all the time. I recently posted some action shots here of Horses in action for Muddy Creek rain gear and the client is making 6 foot wide prints for a trade show booth.

Here's a few samples from that location shoot, take a peek:

http://photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=777157
 

woodyspedden

New member
Marc

Everytime I see your image of the cowboy on horse with the dog trailing i get goosebumps. What a remarkable shot, and i'm sure that the Hassy helped you get what you were looking for.

Best

Woody
 

kipling

New member
nice work and nice light marc. the mirror slap on the h3d is ferocious compared to my contax...at what speeds have you been able to hand hold with? i would think anything under 125th would be tricky without flash. those muddy creek shots were done in natural light handheld? you must have a vise for a right hand : )

thanks, kip
 

fotografz

Well-known member
nice work and nice light marc. the mirror slap on the h3d is ferocious compared to my contax...at what speeds have you been able to hand hold with? i would think anything under 125th would be tricky without flash. those muddy creek shots were done in natural light handheld? you must have a vise for a right hand : )

thanks, kip
Kipling, Yes, all those shots were done mostly hand held and a few in the early AM on a mono-pod (no flash even in the lowest light since I didn't want the horses to spook).

What may not be common knowledge is that there is a menu selection that allows you to adjust mirror timings. It eliminates the effect of any slap.

This attached shot done early AM shows them starting out and was done to demonstrate the unique feature of the rain gear to cover and protect the saddle. It is an ISO 800 shot done with the H3D/31 ... which will increase to ISO 1600 with the new Phocus software and additional firmware upgrades.
 
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PeterA

Well-known member
If that was a chica on that horse Marc - i would have preferred a front on shot posted - and you can keep the saddle protection feature -:) LOL
Interesting to see both Leaf and Sinar now having their eyes and voices on the forum - all we need is a Phase One and Hasselblad dude and the set would be complete.
It would be good to have serious company representatives from various competing forms responding to user feedback - and I am sure that they would get something back.
I volunteer to ask any questions that you pro shooters want asked but wont in case you offend - I am good at calling a spade a shovel -:)
 

Jim Stone

Workshop Member
Peter,

i knew you were somebody I could get to like !! :D I'm verrrry popular with my Co. reps myself !! Hope Phase and Hassy folks check in also. Think there could be some interesting discussions. And while you're at it, get Thomas from Alpa as well. :ROTFL:

Cheers,

Jim
 
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