anyone going for the IQ180 upgrade?

[tashley]

My dealer has quoted me £10,000 (excl VAT) for an upgrade from my 'as new' P65+ to the IQ 180. The offer has to be taken up by the end of the month but the catch is that there won't be a shipping version of the new back to audition before then.

So the speed of operation, quality of live view (is it good enough for framing, let alone focus) and the issue as to whether the focus mask will show in live view are all relevant points and hard to judge without seeing the final product.

It's a lot of extra cash for an as-yet not fully quantifiable benefit though there will apparently be a 'near final' version available to audition some time next week.

What is everyone else doing?

Tim

 

[Christopher]

I think the answer is pretty simple. Do you upgrade for live view or not? If you do than don't. I bet the live view will be crap compared to "normal CMOS" live view. I would even go so far and say it will be black and white and only in perfect light conditions, pretty similar to the live view in capture one.

So if that is the only reason you are wasting a lot of money.

However, for me it is not about MP, or live view, or any might changes, it is only about the stuff I have actually seen and touched. It was so hard to go back to my P65 the crap screen and hastle in finding perfect focus, this alone is a good reason to upgrade for me.

 

[Wayne Fox]

Even if live view is crap, focus evaluation from the display will be effective. And any type of live view will assist framing on technical cameras. The screen is very nice and the interface is well thought out.

There are a lot of other features that I like as well.

As to the original question, yes. I ordered the upgrade hours after reading about the new backs.

 

[hcubell]

My dealer has quoted me £10,000 (excl VAT) for an upgrade from my 'as new' P65+ to the IQ 180. The offer has to be taken up by the end of the month but the catch is that there won't be a shipping version of the new back to audition before then.

Tim

Interesting. I asked my dealer in the US, Capture Integration, about the upgrade program and was told that there was no hard deadline on it. It would be helpful to clarify this.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I'm certainly at LEAST doing a lateral. I want the tech no question about it. I have tested it and it is everything I want functionally. Frankly there is nothing else like it

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Even if live view is crap, focus evaluation from the display will be effective. And any type of live view will assist framing on technical cameras. The screen is very nice and the interface is well thought out.

There are a lot of other features that I like as well.

As to the original question, yes. I ordered the upgrade hours after reading about the new backs.

I'm with Wayne, live view is meaningless it is everything else that what I am after. The zoom 100-400 screen is amazing for detail and focus checking and with focus mask if anything like C1 will confirm it immediately on the fly. I know this will be great for tech cams but focus mask and zoom will be extremely effective for shooters like me that need to work fast. Just the zoom feature alone when testing confirmed that for me. The rest is a bonus is how i am looking at it.

I actually may buy a tech cam after I get the IQ than

 

[tashley]

Thanks guys, a really useful set of responses... I'm not expecting anything useful from live view either but some early rumours suggested there might be a rabbit in the hat. I guess it comes down to how much better the new screen is at confirming focus: if live view isn't much real use then there are two real questions
1) how effective is the focus mask in review?
2) how much easier is it to check focus on the new screen than on the old screen, the answer to which will depend on
a) speed of processing
b) speed and ease of interface (number and complexity of keystrokes versus tap-and-slide)
c) quality of display as means of judging accuracy of focus at 100% zoom.

There's a lot of excitement from tech cam users about being able to use the IQ backs in the field in a way that is game changingly easier than with the existing backs. Like another poster here I am more interested in that aspect of the new backs than in the extra pixel count, but it's hard to unravel sexy from useful at this point without seeing a more finished product... I liked the session I had with the prototype that did the rounds at first and I'm really inclined to do this so let's hope that end of march deadline is indeed not hard and fast!

Tim

 

[gazwas]

£10K is a lot of money for a new screen.

Yes, I'm sold on all the new tech but I still very much have my doubts on how all this will work with a tech/view camera. I mean, how easy will it be to check focus and especially movements on a relatively small 3" screen as I cant with TSE lenses on my Canons. I can still see the need for the notebook to 100% confirm everything and I don't think I could trust it on paying jobs.

And while the P+ screens are not great, they are no worse than the screen on my 1DS3.

 

[dchew]

£10K is a lot of money for a new screen.

Yes, I'm sold on all the new tech but I still very much have my doubts on how all this will work with a tech/view camera. I mean, how easy will it be to check focus and especially movements on a relatively small 3" screen as I cant with TSE lenses on my Canons. I can still see the need for the notebook to 100% confirm everything and I don't think I could trust it on paying jobs.

And while the P+ screens are not great, they are no worse than the screen on my 1DS3.

Yeah, as you and I have discussed on Lula, the big question will be, "Are the functions associated with the IQ good enough and convenient enough to replace the ground glass?" When people refer to a "game changer," I think that is what they are often talking about.

It needs to have equal or better focus accuracy relative to GG (which of course depends on the user). If it is more convenient, then that will be an added plus, but my guess is most tech camera users will choose quality over convenience.

But regardless, these new features will be added tools in the kit for accurate focusing and other tasks. The value of that will as always be user-specific.

For me, I'm not lucky enough to have a back to trade in. So I'm going to have to climb the ladder and take the high-dive.

Dave

 

[GrahamWelland]

And while the P+ screens are not great, they are no worse than the screen on my 1DS3.

I find the LCD on my Leaf back infinitely better than the P+ screen for image review. The P+ suffers the same flaw as my M9 in that it renders mush even when you zoom in. I find them useful for basic exposure via histogram and framing check upon review. I'm most interested in how the new screen works in the field under bright ambient conditions as this is where they all seem to fail to deliver IMHO.

Like everyone else I'm most interested in the potential game changing solution for use on a tech cam. If the focus check works as expected then this will be a big advantage of the IQ. Ditto the more accurate & clearer zoom review.

Yeah, as you and I have discussed on Lula, the big question will be, "Are the functions associated with the IQ good enough and convenient enough to replace the ground glass?" When people refer to a "game changer," I think that is what they are often talking about.

It needs to have equal or better focus accuracy relative to GG (which of course depends on the user). If it is more convenient, then that will be an added plus, but my guess is most tech camera users will choose quality over convenience.

...

Dave

I have pretty decent eyesight but I find focusing with the GG at 645 size to be very difficult and inaccurate compared to traditional 4x5. I don't bother any more and prefer to set focus based on either zone or measurement. If the IQ can make this review better then it will be a triumph of both accuracy and convenience for people like me at least.

It took me a week of reviewing the hype before I decided to place my order, albeit for a lowly IQ140

 

[coulombic]

I was in the exact same position, actually. I was quoted right around $15,000 USD to upgrade from a P65+ to an IQ180. I think, of all of the features, the focus mask is the one that really gives me pause. Currently, I'm using both a Brightscreen Accurfocus loupe and a Brightscreen diagonal split Fresnel focusing screen. Generally speaking, I can nail focus pretty well, even when it's dark, but that extra bit of reassurance of the focus mask would be enthusiastically welcomed.

The best we can do with Live View is postulate. However, as it's not been demonstrated, I tend to side with the less-enthusiastic crowd. In my mind, it stands to reason that, if it were working well, and doing exactly what everyone wants, Phase wouldn't be tight-lipped about it at all. Maybe I just don't understand marketing.

Two factors eventually swayed me from upgrading to the next Phase offering:

1.) The upgrade price to the IQ180, even with an "as new" P65+ as a trade-in feels very high to me. To be more specific, I was faced with the following: upgrade to an Aptus II 12 for a little over $5k, or an IQ180 for $15k.

2.) The lack of user-replaceable batteries is a serious no-go for my purposes. I travel extensively, and do not always have access to a charger, laptop, or any means of powering the back to continue shooting. Replaceable, high-capacity batteries are thus necessary. This was a serious show-stopper in my eyes.

If the tone of this weren't telling enough, I went with the Leaf from Capture Integration. I will very likely demo the IQ180 in the future, but all things considered, I really do not see myself regretting this decision.

 

[yaya]

I find the LCD on my Leaf back infinitely better than the P+ screen for image review

I have to agree and IMBO the preview on the Aptus screen is the only one I can trust for focus check. AFAIK this is the only camera that shows a real 100% crop taken from the RAW data with/ without sharpening and not off of a random size JPEG/ TIFF.
The Aptus-II screen is a little better outdoors compared to the older models, it's a bit brighter with higher contrast and saturation.

The low-ish resolution of the screen actually helps as it makes that preview fairly large. For example on the IQ180 you have to zoom to 400% to get roughly the same size preview as on the Aptus-II 12 at 100%

Yair

 

[gazwas]

I have to agree and IMBO the preview on the Aptus screen is the only one I can trust for focus check. AFAIK this is the only camera that shows a real 100% crop taken from the RAW data with/ without sharpening and not off of a random size JPEG/ TIFF.
The Aptus-II screen is a little better outdoors compared to the older models, it's a bit brighter with higher contrast and saturation.

The low-ish resolution of the screen actually helps as it makes that preview fairly large. For example on the IQ180 you have to zoom to 400% to get roughly the same size preview as on the Aptus-II 12 at 100%

Yair

Can't say I agree with you there Yair. The Aptus screen is just as capable at rendering fine detail (focus) as the other similar digital backs. The IQ screens with their high pixels count and excellent quality (iPhone style) has the edge by a long way and for straight forward focus check they had no rival.

My concern is however not the quality but the size of the screen (3.2") for checking not just focus but tilts, swings etc and hence my doubts for the OP shelling out £10K on something nobody has seen in action yet. Like I said doing this with a quality live view experience on a Canon and TSE lenses is very difficult to judge and always ends up with final checks on a laptop. And if you still need the laptop then why bother.

 

[GrahamWelland]

Yair,

I confess that if I found a comparable deal for an Aptus-II 10 then I could be terribly tempted to go that way vs IQ140 ... I realize that's heretical talk here at the moment :angel::grin:

At least the list price difference for this change is relatively similar - I'd hate to be looking at the justification of the bigger differences between Aptus II 12 & IQ180 ... you folks have my sympathy in working that brain (image quality & $$$ less) vs heart (new features) equation. Easier for some folks than others I suspect.

 

[GrahamWelland]

Can't say I agree with you there Yair. The Aptus screen is just as capable at rendering fine detail (focus) as the other similar digital backs. The IQ screens with their high pixels count and excellent quality (iPhone style) has the edge by a long way and for straight forward focus check they had no rival.

oke: I think we must have different experiences with Aptus & other backs then - I suspect that we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I have an Aptus 65 & P40+ and there most certainly is a very visible difference when I look at mine and I'm pretty certain that there's nothing special about my gear ... and that's with the previous generation Aptus screen too.

I would certainly agree that the promise of the IQ display should be a step up overall.

 

[yaya]

Maybe this can illustrate what I mean

I always find relatively good correlation between what I see on the Aptus display to what I seen on my laptop in terms of detail and sharpness

Yair

 

[gazwas]

And for some balance....

 

[Guy Mancuso]

well that zoom 3 just does not cut it. Wait till you see the IQ it puts it to shame even at 100 percent never mind 400. Jack and I did do a preproduction review on the IQ 180

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23200

In the video you can clearly see the detail

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GYKfT0jvec

 

[gogopix]

well that zoom 3 just does not cut it. Wait till you see the IQ it puts it to shame even at 100 percent never mind 400. Jack and I did do a preproduction review on the IQ 180

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23200

In the video you can clearly see the detail

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GYKfT0jvec

Guy,
Thanks for the verification on the screen. I too have been disappointed in zoom 3 on P65+, so much that focus check has been misleading (if GG looks ok, p+screen is fuzzy)

What I have found is that features from Phase may take a while (remember Sensor+? You actually needed to send back back.)..but they eventually come through. I would assume same with LV and Focus mask. With all the "speculation" I think Phase would have disabused us if it were not being worked on. Also, my experience with CMOS LV is that there is some smearing...making it difficult in a changing scene anyway. And Videos? they are too slow a shutter speed.

At 3 fps focus, except for sport, will be just fine. Crossing my fingers but an IQ1x0 on an Alpa TC will be a godsend.

regards
Victor

 

[yaya]

And for some balance....

Only thing is you've made that screen about twice as large as it really is;-) And it still looks soft in comparison to the preview in C1...