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No strangers here, just "enablers" :ROTFL:Well, yes, asking ordinary strangers would be a bad idea, but these here are GetDPI strangers. We're special!:loco:
Matt:angel:
As you didI've never once made a recommendation that someone else not spend their money...oke:
Just a thought. You have no experience in digital MF. There is a lot more to it than shooting a DSLR. If you go through some threads, the complexities of the system, the software and time spent in learning MF is explained. So if you want to go the MF way, why notGoing along this line of thinking for a second....
- a used P65+ costs the same as IQ140 which would you choose.
I'm smack in the middle of deciding that now. If I was a tech cam shooter all the time than the IQ in any flavor
- The difference of either of the above to IQ180 is about $17-20K - a small extra(??) considering the doubling of resolution
MPX are not everything
- If I get IQ140 (or P65+) now and upgrade, my then used IQ140 would have depreciated in value, making the upgrade more costly in the future, unless perhaps upgrade to IQ180 when they have a 100MP back - in what.... 3 years?
Certainly tougher money wise going from the 40 sensors to the bigger ones. Need to remember also upgrade programs are designed to get you to upgrade so the depreciation value on the street is different than the upgrade programs. The upgrade programs always offer less depreciation on your current gear. The basic idea here is keep you in the system.
Another idea -
- Wait for the influx of traded up P65+ to 'flood' the market (haha?) and pick them up at a much cheaper (??) price
How many P65+'s were they selling in 2008-2010?
A lot don't have those numbers but most backs wind up in education programs and rental houses. Think about this for a second Phase really does not want a lot of used backs on the market since they could lose new sales instead. Not a Phase thing overall but all manufactures do not want to flood the market with used product so they will off load them for other things. This is very normal.
I'm not sure why people would go with IQ160 over IQ180 when the difference is not that much.
On the upgrade path no doubt and for resale value the 180 will have more value so yes this is a tough call and Phase as you can see by there pricing are pushing the 180 and that will reflect in there units sold.
Tough choice!
Thanks for this. Can you please point me to this thread? Thanks! I'm curious as to what others might be dissatisfied about.One more word of caution, there was a thread where the steep learning curve of Digital Technical Camera was discussed. The reason being an unsatisfied new comer to MFDB world.
Or making money is more like it ...Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?
yes if your hobby is spending money
For the landscape shooter, to get the very best IQ off of MF tech/view is the way to go what Terry got is my "DREAM" camera, Phase DF is a nice system, but it's more of a oversized DSLR so it more versatile, Great for Fashion, Studio work, etc. Sure you can shot landscape to, but have to be aware of the limitations, I guess it all gets down to what you like to shoot.I only use a technical camera and sold my DF body/lenses.
Doug is right...I never understood the mentality of doing things half-assed. If something is worth doing then it's worth doing right IMHOSome hobbyists will prefer a camera which is the easiest to get an ok image. But to me that's like saying a hobby runner should forgo actually running the miles and just jump in their car and drive to the finish line.
And this one is also interesting, on the other side of the coin:Cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding conflicting ideas simultaneously. The theory of cognitive dissonance proposes that people have a motivational drive to reduce dissonance. They do this by changing their attitudes, beliefs, and actions.[2] Dissonance is also reduced by justifying, blaming, and denying. It is one of the most influential and extensively studied theories in social psychology.
Experience can clash with expectations, as, for example, with buyer's remorse following the purchase of an expensive item. In a state of dissonance, people may feel surprise,[2] dread, guilt, anger, or embarrassment. People are biased to think of their choices as correct, despite any contrary evidence. This bias gives dissonance theory its predictive power, shedding light on otherwise puzzling irrational and destructive behavior.
A classical example of this idea (and the origin of the expression "sour grapes") is expressed in the fable The Fox and the Grapes by Aesop (ca. 620–564 BCE). In the story, a fox sees some high-hanging grapes and wishes to eat them. When the fox is unable to think of a way to reach them, he surmises that the grapes are probably not worth eating, as they must not be ripe or that they are sour. This example follows a pattern: one desires something, finds it unattainable, and reduces one's dissonance by criticizing it.
Post-purchase rationalization is a phenomenon whereby someone who purchases an expensive product or service overlooks any faults or defects in order to justify their purchase. Expensive purchases often involve a lot of careful research and deliberation, and many consumers will often refuse to admit that their decision was made in poor judgement. Many purchasing decisions are made emotionally, based on factors such as brand-loyalty and advertising, and so are often rationalized retrospectively in an attempt to justify the choice.
I keep thinking about one of theseI'm 25 myself and could not have jumped to MF had it not been for a used h3dii-39.... Image quality alone is amazing when jumping from a 1ds III or 5d II.... Although I didn't have 55k to spend, it would have been spent buying the lesser of the backs i.e IQ140 and just building up the lens arsenal, as I can personally say from experience that lenses retain value while the price of a sensor keeps going down and down.
The danger in using psychology to assess the behavior of other people is that the person making the observation is often projecting his own feelings onto others. Sometimes it works, but sometimes it doesn't. For example, those that have gone through buyer's remorse could be more likely to assume that others will experience the same. Those that console themselves in the presence of unattainable items by criticizing them (sour grapes) could be quicker to assume that others offer criticism for similar reasons.Ha! I was reading Wikipedia on "Buyer's Remorse" and Cognitive Dissonance. This one came from the latter:
You fell for the oldest sales line in the business. Gosh, you must be a sales persons dream when you roll up to the showroom.Doug is right...I never understood the mentality of doing things half-assed. If something is worth doing then it's worth doing right IMHO.
Come on.....the quality of the camera equipment makes ZERO difference to the ability to be a better artist. It might overcome some technical boundaries but if you believe it will make you a better artist spending more and more money on the latest kit then I'd give up photography now. However your comment may be a result of your statement above........ (said in a salesman's voice) "you really gotta have the best, sir $$$$$"However, if working to the highest level of craftsmanship in an effort to become a better artist is the primary motivating factor, then there is no limit to the resources that could justifiably be spent to achieve the goal.
I think you have missed one important back off your list, if not the most relevant and may possibly be the best one to start you off.I keep thinking about one of these
- not buying anything (might also regret this decision)
- get the ultimate IQ180
- get the P65+
- get the IQ140 (same price as P65+ but the IQ seems to be more pleasurable to use - heck how often would one need to check focus... every time? film ppl didn't use to be able to check focus / exposure / anything)
Here is another opinion. For the OP, at least, before acquiring an Alpa and a set of lenses to go with it, I would urge him to try out the experience of shooting with a tech camera by taping off the viewfinder in his Canon 1ds and turning off the autofocus and the Live View. Take some photographs and ask yourself, would these photographs have been exceptional if only I had used sharper lenses? The answer to me is clear.I
To me part of the joy of shooting landscape with a tech camera is the WAY you shoot. The slower, more methodical, more mechanical, older school, precise and tactile shooting that comes with a tech camera is part of the fun for me. As a profession it would be a point-of-question: you can't produce as many shots/day with a tech camera as a dSLR - so is the increased quality and flexibility and decreased time in front of the computer later worth it to your business? But as a hobby it's a very different question - in many ways who cares how many shots you can accomplish per day. The greater question is how good will those shots be (to you) and how much will you enjoy creating them at the time, and viewing/sharing them after the fact.
Another way of saying this is that in professional photography the capture of the image is often reduced to a means to an end - the delivery of an image to a client who will pay for it. In hobby photography the journey - the process of capturing the image - is just as important as the process.
Some hobbyists will prefer a camera which is the easiest to get an ok image. But to me that's like saying a hobby runner should forgo actually running the miles and just jump in their car and drive to the finish line. I prefer a camera which is more an extension of my body and allows me to interact with the landscape rather than just frame it up and snap a shot. I feel more involved in the making of the image with a tech camera than I do looking through a live-view on a 5DII and doing things like pan-and-stitch and focus stacking on the computer later on. Getting a great image on a tech camera is more challenging, more engaging, and is slower than with more automatic and general-purpose cameras, but that makes it very satisfying to me - the fact that it produces the best possible quality is just a bonus.
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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