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Kodak 50MP sensor

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Natasa Stojsic

Guest
foto-z said:
This is just about the 50MP sensor which Kodak announced recently. I received the spec sheet today:

http://www.mediafire.com/?tzugyyqvzyy

FWIW, the dynamic range seems to be around 11.5 stops.
Click to expand...

I can't remember where... but I read about Phase not being sure should they use Dalsa or Kodak sensor this time..... Perhaps, that could effect the size of megapixels, maybe even the size of the sensor itself!!! Anyway there is nothing on Dalsa website yet.

Bottom line is obviously Kodak 50MP...

Anybody/any info on that?
 
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F

fotografz

Well-known member
foto-z said:
We just have to wait and see what Dalsa has been working on.
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If anyone is more likely to jump beyond 645 it seems it would be Dalsa for the Sinar and Leaf Hy6 cameras ... and by extension, backs for legecy Hasselblad 6X6 cameras.

I'd personaly like to have that, as opposed to a 50 meg 645.

We'll just have to wait and see. :rolleyes:
 
L

LJL

New member
Similar feelings about sharing info, unless things are under NDA, then do not even bother with "teases". While I understand how Photokina is THE big event for this kind of stuff, it seems a bit outdated at this point. The two year span worked well with film based things, but the world of digital is much faster in progression by comparison. Having products ready to go is also important, rather than announcing something being thought of or planned for 1-2 years out. Personally, if a manufacturer has a new or pending product, they should be talking about is as soon as they can or are confident for release. These higher ticket items may be another issue, and should be brought into discussions as early as is practical, not to jump the other competitors as much as to give prospective buyers some time to figure out upgrade paths, compatibilities, and stuff that matters for planning. How hard would it be for Hasselblad to tell folks that the planned 645 sensor was going to work on a redesigned H2F or something? How much does Dalsa (and Leaf and Sinar) gain by not talking about a new sensor they are considering? The games usually lead to much buzz, followed by lots of letdown around this time of year. So I say dump the data on the goods now, and forget about "leaks" and timing for Photokina. Just my opinion here.

LJ
 
Guy Mancuso

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Well someone show me the money than. LOL

I just have a feeling this will be a banner year for MF.
 
D

dlew308

Guest
They should come out with it now, tell the masses now now now :)
 
H

harmsr

Workshop Member
I'm much more excited about the Hassy announcement that they are going to share information and their direction relative to a true 645 sensor at Photokina vs. the 50MP current size. Since Phase & Hassy use the same chip, I'm sure that they will do the same.

Exciting.

Ray
 
L

LJL

New member
I agree, Ray. Hasselblad was very open (yes, a term many would not associate with them for some things) in announcing that they do have some stuff in the works, that it will be a year or so off, and that they will be talking about it. Not much hidden in that. Details? Not many, but enough to work with to start asking questions about planned bodies, backs, and things. This actually gives Hassy a lot of feedback through questions and customer speculations about how to progress with some of this stuff. That all seems healthier than wondering if Sinar will stick with Dalsa or go to Kodak, or wondering if Dalsa has a bigger sensor coming or not. This info gets leaked out anyway, on purpose or other ways, so better to get it straight from the manufacturers ASAP.

LJ
 
Guy Mancuso

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Firm believer in road maps. Just give us a idea if it don't happen fine but a path to follow is better than no path at all.

Sounds like a quote, who did I steal that from.
 
KurtKamka

KurtKamka

Subscriber Member
With a small initial market, high prices and margins, a high level of competition between manufacturers trying to become the market leader and very eager dealers thrown into the mix, the whole process of acquiring a back feels very much like the process of buying an automobile (similar overall cost to the end-user). There's a host of dynamics that arise in that type of environment that are both pleasant and unpleasant.
 
L

LJL

New member
Kurt,
I agree with your assessment. From a strategic perspective, the MF companies need to be thinking more about growing their entire market, not just competing with each other to be the present market leader. If the entire pie gets bigger, there is more to go around ;-)

Offering "entry level" gear at affordable prices is a great way to get folks using MF systems to start. The more backs they can sell, the more the R&D costs for new sensor development can be amortized across a larger number of units. Volume is the key. So rather than trying to "steal" market share from each other, the more successful strategy is to grow the entire market, as that translates into greater volumes for all players. The market leader thing gets sorted out by lots of things....total units sold or being used, customer service, new offerings, etc. Some may be more important than others, but in the end, the more backs/sensors they sell, the cheaper the costs for those sensors and the more money available to develop new things. Getting folks excited about an entire spectrum of gear offerings should be good business for all, but only if the new offerings can be seen to "fit" into what folks want and are willing to afford. My hope is that more folks get into MF to increase those sales and create more offerings and at more reasonable prices.

LJ
 
N

Natasa Stojsic

Guest
foto-z said:
If Dalsa did release a 645 chip (56x42mm), it would be a step up and great news.
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I heard something... but I can't believe how cheap these DB makers are, so I'm not sure if the deal is going through or not!!! They can definitely do it now if they want to!!!

Actually if these companies don't make the deal with Dalsa, I would rather see no increase in number of pixels but substantial cut in prices... that way they would WIN financially and improve their chances and I would do that at least for a year or two!!! Not to mention, there are plenty of things to improve that bother us, number of pixels not being one of them...

Instead of arguing and making DB who holds x3 times more pixels than 1Ds MkIII, why not level the price P30+/etc. with 1Ds MkIII and let the game begin:thumbup:

Anyway the price of P30+/etc will drop anyway, probably not enough though!!!

If I was in DB business.... I would make sure that my entry level Camera P30+/etc. would cost not more than the entry level of VISA Credit Card, which I believe is $5000.00!!! That way everybody could have a decent chance/choice!!!

And when I hear their Rep/PRs talking about how market is small..... OF COURSE IT'S SMALL, OBVIOUSLY THEY ARE SHRINKING IT!!!
 
Jack

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Prediction:

Historically, (and I have no inside knowledge this is the case now, just speaking from years of marketing experience) the weakest new product to market usually knows it and tries to offset that by speaking first -- IOW if yours aint the best, get as big a head start as you can... That said, both Phase and Leaf have been inordinately silent in response to the Hassy 50MP announcement, so I suspect to hear something at least equal to and quite probably even more impressive when they do finally speak.

What that is, I have no idea, but I would say the two "biggest" deals in our current MF world would be 1) a "bigger, faster or both" back and 2) a "lower cost or entry level" back...

Cheers,
 
W

woodyspedden

New member
Jack Flesher said:
Prediction:

Historically, (and I have no inside knowledge this is the case now, just speaking from years of marketing experience) the weakest new product to market usually knows it and tries to offset that by speaking first -- IOW if yours aint the best, get as big a head start as you can... That said, both Phase and Leaf have been inordinately silent in response to the Hassy 50MP announcement, so I suspect to hear something at least equal to and quite probably even more impressive when they do finally speak.

What that is, I have no idea, but I would say the two "biggest" deals in our current MF world would be 1) a "bigger, faster or both" back and 2) a "lower cost or entry level" back...

Cheers,
Click to expand...
Jack

I think that what you say is true from an historical perspective but, given Nikons early announcement of what appears to be a remarkable product in the D700, it might not continue to be true today. I am sure that Canon is going to respond with a new 5D replacement but that doesn't take away from the D700 in any way. They will probably both be very good and slightly different as each company plays to its market view and positioning.

I expect the same in MF. Hassy has already announced not only the 50 Mpx back but also the very clever T/S product to solve some of the problems of MFDB compared to a technical camera.

I am equally sure that Phase, Leaf, Sinar et al will be at the gates with their new thrills as well. It seems to me that we now have many choices and only our personal priorities dictate what we end up with. For instance I am not a technical camera shooter nor do I work with multiple MFDB systems (Good lord I can't afford the ONE I have!LOL) so the much more versatile Sinar system didn't get my vote over the Hassy. Anyway, the past 12 months have been a real renaissance for MF and I hope it continues. No matter what equipment we now own, competition and innovation can only be good for all of us who are part of this market.

Best

Woody
 
Terry

Terry

New member
DPReview has a news story on the new sensor. There is an "editorial" portion written up that is not part of the press release which is a discussion of the new technology baked into this sensor. Sorry I can't give the direct link but it is easy to find on the front page.
 
F

fotografz

Well-known member
Here's how the actual delivery system works in relation to one another.

The jump from 39 to 50 meg looks more substantual than the jump from 31 to 39 meg.

Or is my math off here?

Man, I can't even print that big with my 3800 ;)

The new 4 channel technology in this Kodak chip sounds very interesting. Can't wait to see what it can do.
 
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