The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

P65+ info up.

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
It'll also be interesting to see what kind of color differences there may be between images taken with the Dalsa sensor compared to those taken with the Kodak sensor in the P+ backs.

Kurt
Color is always one of those sticky questions. Phase One has continuously (i.e. with every generation of backs) improved their color "accuracy" against technical measurements. Phase One's engineers have told me that the P65+ will be no exception. But any change in color rendition can alienate users who grew found of a previous backs color response.

A good dealer or a power-user can use Phase One's Color Editor to generate color profiles to match previous digital backs (or even the color of a specific dSLR) as part of the purchasing process. I've done this for instance for a customer who wanted to match a P45+ to a P25+. This includes skin tone response under your preferred lighting conditions. Hell, I could make a P45+ in incandescent light behave like my Canon point and shoot under moonlight if for some reason that was the look I prefered; it's all in the profile and the per-channel latitude of the raw file (assuming you pick a digital back manufacturer that offers a tool like the Color Editor).

This is also where the concept of "good skin tones" get mixed up with one's personal opinion. If you want olive skin tones or red skin tones (or even if you wanted blue skin tones) the tools provided by Phase One allow for the creation in 10 minutes of a custom profile that matches your tastes. This is not Photoshop; the profile can be applied to all incoming tethered shots the moment they are captured or applied in seconds to hundreds of shots after the fact.

So, yes the color will be accurate. Yes there will be SUBTLE differences (read: technical improvements the usefulness of which will depend on your aesthetics). Yes, we (or any good dealer) can help you establish a color profile that matches your desired aesthetics.

Doug Peterson
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer
Personal Portfolio
 

LJL

New member
A lot of this tech sounds promising. Guess it remains to be seen once it is in final form and folks have a chance to see for themselves.

Speaking of seeing....can someone clarify whether the LCD will remain the small, marginal performer it is now, or will it gain some actual higher performance (larger, more pixels, brighter for working outdoors, etc.). While this may not seem as important as the actual sensor details and working, it is an important feature for utility. There seems few credible reasons why these backs do not have larger and higher resolution LCDs at this point, and heat and power seem weak excuses, given how easy it is to place high res color LCDs on everything from an iPhone to inexpensive digicams.

Sorry for the bit of a rant.....the specs look good, but some physical attributes of the back itself remained a bit mired.

LJ
 

woodyspedden

New member
Hey Guy and Jack, I have a proposal for you.

Between the two of you you have a P25+ and a P45+. It would be very interesting for you to get together and shoot a common subject as you both also have the new Phase body. The print the results at a size that requires uprezzing of the P25 files and goes native res with the P45+. Now look at the differences and show them to non Phase owners to assure some level of objectivity. (It is very hard to be objective when you have $22K to $31K invested......I know it would be hard for me with My Hassy H3DII-39)

Anyway the point of the exercise is to see how well the P25+ compares to a much higher resolution back. It also shows the worth of the fatter pixels of the P25+ compared to the higher res backs. So you might also want to shoot some higher ISO stuff to test that. Having gone from my CFV back (16Mpx square) to the 39Mpx H3 I am not sure which one I prefer. That CFV back is actually pretty special and I may yet own a new CFVII to go along with my modified 203FE. Then I can personally do some comparisons.

Just a thought

Woody
 

mtomalty

New member
A good dealer or a power-user can use Phase One's Color Editor to generate color profiles to match previous digital backs (or even the color of a specific dSLR) as part of the purchasing process.
Doug,

Will the Color Editor be returning in v4 Pro when it finally is released?

Mark
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Hey Guy and Jack, I have a proposal for you.

Between the two of you you have a P25+ and a P45+. It would be very interesting for you to get together and shoot a common subject as you both also have the new Phase body. The print the results at a size that requires uprezzing of the P25 files and goes native res with the P45+. Now look at the differences and show them to non Phase owners to assure some level of objectivity. (It is very hard to be objective when you have $22K to $31K invested......I know it would be hard for me with My Hassy H3DII-39)

Anyway the point of the exercise is to see how well the P25+ compares to a much higher resolution back. It also shows the worth of the fatter pixels of the P25+ compared to the higher res backs. So you might also want to shoot some higher ISO stuff to test that. Having gone from my CFV back (16Mpx square) to the 39Mpx H3 I am not sure which one I prefer. That CFV back is actually pretty special and I may yet own a new CFVII to go along with my modified 203FE. Then I can personally do some comparisons.

Just a thought Woody

Sounds good Woody and when we can get together again soon I hope we will do that. We did test a little in San Juan the straight P25 not the Plus against the P45 plus and there is a detail difference but that may not show up until you hit the 20x30 print size i would guess. The P25 plus though I can uprez in C1 which i do for clients to 125 percent and frankly there is no difference that I can tell uprezing it, handles very well the files.
 

harmsr

Workshop Member
IF one got faster frame rates and/or higher ISO, then this back becomes a true 2-fer and hence seems to pretty quickly justify its cost of entry. Especially true for those of you who are already shooting a combo of backs like the P30+/H31 with P45+/H39 for the options of both speed/High-ISO and overall image quality...
As you know, I'm one of those who has a P30+/Phase-Mamiya system and the H3DII39 system. Your right about it being very interesting, once Mamiya has leaf shutter lenses. However, I still need a backup and still like the H3 camera body better than the Mamiya body. Hopefully, Mamiya will address some of the body complaints in a future AFD-IV (I'm going to send Lance my thoughts between the Mamiya and Hassy bodies, since I am using both. He plans to send that on to Phase/Mamiya.)

I admit the P65+ is very interesting if it can do leaf + focal plane shutters, T/S lenses, high resolution, fast captures, and "lower" resolution with higher ISOs in one system. The only drawback is that I still need to keep a backup.

Ray
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Note that we have run this exact test: http://www.captureintegration.com/tests/phase-one/ (see the 2nd test)

I ran the comparison myself.

Doug Peterson
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer
Personal Portfolio

Hey Guy and Jack, I have a proposal for you.

Between the two of you you have a P25+ and a P45+. It would be very interesting for you to get together and shoot a common subject as you both also have the new Phase body. The print the results at a size that requires uprezzing of the P25 files and goes native res with the P45+. Now look at the differences and show them to non Phase owners to assure some level of objectivity. (It is very hard to be objective when you have $22K to $31K invested......I know it would be hard for me with My Hassy H3DII-39)

Just a thought

Woody
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
New and improved Color Editor is indeed a lock for 4.2 Pro.

In the meanwhile the Color Editor in 3.7.8 Pro can be used to create custom profiles which can then be used in 4.1.

Doug

Doug,

Will the Color Editor be returning in v4 Pro when it finally is released?

Mark
 

LJL

New member
As you know, I'm one of those who has a P30+/Phase-Mamiya system and the H3DII39 system. Your right about it being very interesting, once Mamiya has leaf shutter lenses. However, I still need a backup and still like the H3 camera body better than the Mamiya body. Hopefully, Mamiya will address some of the body complaints in a future AFD-IV (I'm going to send Lance my thoughts between the Mamiya and Hassy bodies, since I am using both. He plans to send that on to Phase/Mamiya.)

I admit the P65+ is very interesting if it can do leaf + focal plane shutters, T/S lenses, high resolution, fast captures, and "lower" resolution with higher ISOs in one system. The only drawback is that I still need to keep a backup.

Ray
Ray,
You have a great set-up to cover most needs. The P30+ will handle the lower light and focal plane needs for shooting, and your H3DII-39 can manage anything you may run into needing more res or higher flash syncs. Not sure what else you could need.

The P65+ will have more pixels, but we have yet to see it perform, or even in the wild yet, so no rush there. If you were thinking of it, you most likely could just sell your P30+, as that would be covered (IF they get the ISO up, and IF you could live without longer exposures), as then you would have the higher and lower resolutions covered, and your H39 would fall in the middle and still never be a slouch, plus still serving as outstanding primary or back-up for most things you might need to shoot. Really does not sound like a bad problem to have. :D

As for all the other wishes in your list.....I think there are many, myself included, that would like to see those come to pass. IF Phase/Mamiya are able to get decent leaf shutter lenses out to work on their camera for both leaf and focal plane needs, that could be the single system ticket. That remains to be seen, and it is a bit surprising how quiet pre-Photokina announcements are for those lenses. The 80 they have promised, or that will be shipping, is nice, but very overlapped with everything for most folks. Would be nice to get a good wide and couple of short-med teles out real soon so that the camera actually becomes a flexible system for those needing it. Otherwise, the kit you have still seems like an outstanding answer to covering most bases. Just my thinking.

LJ
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I really think we have some exciting products coming out from Sinar , Hassy and Phase right now with the few announcements that have been made. I'm sure they may have even more for the big show.
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Some simple geometry solves for focal length adjustments betwen different sized chips/film - remember your high school geometry : a^2 + b^2 = c^2 that gives you the ratios to play with to your heart's content
 

woodyspedden

New member
Some simple geometry solves for focal length adjustments betwen different sized chips/film - remember your high school geometry : a^2 + b^2 = c^2 that gives you the ratios to play with to your heart's content
And God bless Mr. Pythagorus for his many contributions to mathematics. What would we do without him? LOL

Peter, you are the best

Woody
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
LOLOL! But one also needs to know what that diagonal signifies :D Many may not be aware it is how the "normal" focal length for any given format is determined. Ironic perhapas too that I just this morning put together an Excel spreadsheet that did all the calcs for me. I was actually a bit surprised at how little additional diagonal there was to the bigger frame -- just a skosh, about a 10% reduction in effective overall focal length...

:salute:,
 

David K

Workshop Member
I forgot my high school math but based on my very limited understanding of quantum mechanics it seems none of it applies any more. All I know is that my photography related expenditures have created a black hole in my bank account :)
 

yaya

Active member
I really think we have some exciting products coming out from Sinar , Hassy and Phase right now with the few announcements that have been made. I'm sure they may have even more for the big show.
...mostly cheap appetisers so far....:sleep006:
 

fotografz

Well-known member
As you know, I'm one of those who has a P30+/Phase-Mamiya system and the H3DII39 system. Your right about it being very interesting, once Mamiya has leaf shutter lenses. However, I still need a backup and still like the H3 camera body better than the Mamiya body. Hopefully, Mamiya will address some of the body complaints in a future AFD-IV (I'm going to send Lance my thoughts between the Mamiya and Hassy bodies, since I am using both. He plans to send that on to Phase/Mamiya.)

I admit the P65+ is very interesting if it can do leaf + focal plane shutters, T/S lenses, high resolution, fast captures, and "lower" resolution with higher ISOs in one system. The only drawback is that I still need to keep a backup.

Ray
Ditto.
 
Top