My Reality

[kit laughlin]

Guy, I get the WYSIWYG in the finder thing totally. That (for me) would be reason enough to go the P65+, and why I needed to go FF (135) as soon as the 5D, then D3, was released. Good luck with the P65+. FF is the way to go in any format, IMHO, for many reasons.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Honestly Kit this is what is driving me more than anything. My problem or asset depending how you look at things is i am a very visual person as i should be being a photographer as well as many here and when you start impeding the visual aspects when you shoot it becomes a issue. Its not the sensor at all it is the viewing and man I wish the new body could solve that. I mean i could black it out too and tried it but for some reason bugs me. What I know is going to kill me is this LCD integration on the IQ backs is honestly folks a major game changer and i will call it right now the absolute best integrated LCD layout in ALL of photography. There simply is nothing like it and it completely smokes the prototype I used for quite a bit of shooting too already. Anyone going into MF now or existing shooters takes one look at this thing and you head is going to spin it is that nice and i am very hard to impress when it comes to this stuff. I know Jack is working hard on his review and Jack besides being my business partner here is also my best friend and when he gets excited than I know something is up.

 

[narikin]

I don't have time to read all these replies, but as a P65+ owner, who is upgrading, I can tell you that someone is going to get a damn fine used back with mine. The DR is amazing.

If you work with a DF, there really is little to justify the extra features on an IQ. I've taken tens of thousands of images this way, and been very happy.

I'm only upgrading as I can never get enough pixels (my prints are b-i-g) but otherwise some lucky so and so is getting a very good P65+ Dalsa sensor with terrific DR and best in class color.

 

[gazwas]

So my dilemma or real solution which solves everything is the IQ 160 as I get the tech and I get the Full Frame and I am basically done for a long time.

Don't think you could every say that.

Hypothetically, what happens if in 2 years Phase release a brilliant new camera with GPS, wireless and removeable finders that smokes the Blad H cameras and a 100MP CMOS IQ back with all the current features plus real live view, 13 stops DR and video?

I know I'd sell a kidney for all that in MFD and 35mm can go for good! :thumbup:

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I know, I know never ever ever say never. LOL

 

[erick.boileau]

So my dilemma or real solution which solves everything is the IQ 160

I agree totally , with the 160 you get all what you need, enough pixels , FF and new sexy features
and your computer (Mac I guess) will love the IQ160 much more than the 180

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Yup I may just have to go visit a lender. See my real solution is right there in the 160

 

[richard.L]

Hmmm,
---
The only thing I'd keep is the cube...

Hmmmm...

only because I read thread to here and felt compelled to jump in.
Often I consider buying equipment, then find that I am "sharpening the pencil" -- a phrase a writer gave me for what "he" does when he can't write. He meant that instead of writing he would sharpen his pencil, arrange his desk, etc... --

I talk now as someone not with any client other than myself, but I do think you may have the answer...

Richard, thinking that we buy pencils and paper when what we really want is to make poetry.

 

[Tim Ernst]

My wife is the one who convinced me to order the 180 Guy. I have no clients, and all of my shooting is for myself, but my legacy will be in the files I produce between now and when I quit shooting, and she said that I might as well capture the very best that I can do with whatever tools are available right now since most of what I shoot can never be repeated. What is "too many" mps now will be peanuts in the future. Made perfect sense to me (which is also why I got a medium-format digital system in the first place several years ago). I can't take any cash with me when I go, but my images hopefully will be around for a long time to be printed and viewed and I want them to be the very best it was possible for me to make...

 

[Jack]

Well I did find one wart last night, so hold onto your wallet!!!

If you over-sharpen and add clarity to an ISO 35 file and peer deep into the lowest levels of the image with your monitor brightness cranked up, you get visible NOISE! Of course you also get image detail in that noise where my P65+ would have only given me black LOLOLOLOL!!!

Full image:

Here's the crop -- if you look deep into the shadows you can see some noise. If you crank the brightness up on your display, you can read the sign on the inside wall in the deepest shadow between the fence rails. At normal monitor brightness (around 140 lumens) we only have a hint the sign is even there:

To save you all the trouble of adjusting your monitor, here is a similar crop from the same file reprocessed in C1 with exposure bumped to C1's 2.5 stop max, but without the added clarity and sharpening. Note the noise is there, but for all intents and purposes it is trivial even at this extreme shadow push:

Guy, does this help you feel better about passing on it?

,

 

[Garcia]

Could you write Sharpening and Noise reduction values for this picture, Jack ?

I'd like to replicate noise level on similar picture taken with aptus12 at ISO 50 .

 

[vieri]

Well I did find one wart last night. If you over-sharpen and add clarity to an ISO 35 file and peer deep into the lowest levels of the image with your monitor brightness cranked up, you get visible NOISE! Of course you also get image detail in that noise where my P65+ would have only given me black LOLOLOLOL!!!

...

To save you all the trouble of adjusting your monitor, here is a crop of the same image without the added clarity and sharpening, but exposure bumped to C1's 2.5 stop max. Note the noise is there, but for all intents and purposes, trivial even at this extreme shadow push:

Guy, does this help you feel better about passing on it?

,

Jack, you are killing me!! :ROTFL: That doesn't help, I was almost set on passing on the upgrade... :angel: ehm... almost, and seeing that shadow detail just pushed me back into wanting one real bad! :banghead:

Plus I am rethinking all my equipment setup, so serious decisions will have to be made shortly...

Thanks for the sample, it seriously looks scary!

 

[mvirtue]

To save you all the trouble of adjusting your monitor, here is a similar crop from the same file reprocessed in C1 with exposure bumped to C1's 2.5 stop max, but without the added clarity and sharpening. Note the noise is there, but for all intents and purposes it is trivial even at this extreme shadow push:


Guy, does this help you feel better about passing on it?

,

Dang! It even retained the color of the lettering! Why do I feel like I've now seen the holy grail?

 

[Jack]

Could you write Sharpening and Noise reduction values for this picture, Jack ?

I'd like to replicate noise level on similar picture taken with aptus12 at ISO 50 .

So the original properly exposed version was processed normally in C1 then I ran my web sharpening and local contrast routines in Photoshop prior to rendering the downsized jpeg -- it's too complicated to share those settings as they use CS's advanced sharpening routine, but it is basically a detail extraction routine and why it enhances noise wherever present. Normally I'd mask it out, but left it here just to make the extreme point about how clean this file is. My local contrast routine for web jpegs is high-radius (50) low percent (10%) USM in CS.

 

[Jack]

Mark, Vieri --

I can assure you I am blown away myself, and I've only just begun exploring this new tool! What is clear already is that we have some seriously increased file capabilities...

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I have it in my hand right now. Blown away. Don is Blown away.

Already shot on Arca RM2D and Cambo. New 28mm and new 43mm lenses on the Arca

 

[vieri]

Mark, Vieri --

I can assure you I am blown away myself, and I've only just begun exploring this new tool! What is clear already is that we have some seriously increased file capabilities...

Indeed we do! A question Jack, I am wondering if the current Phase lenses are really able to deliver enough detail to the back's 80 MP, do you have an opinion already - or at least a feeling about it? I know you had the back for too short a time, just wondering what your first impressions are... It'd be even more interesting if someone could test it on a tech camera with Rode & Schneider glass...

I think with such high res backs, lenses are already or will be soon the weak link in the chain: like, no need to get more MP, you lens will deliver much less detail anyway; new backs and eventually even more MP will impact on other aspects of IQ, not just detail...

 

[vieri]

I have it in my hand right now. Blown away. Don is Blown away.

...Guy, that doesn't help either, especially coming after seeing Jack's sample above... :ROTFL:

 

[Guy Mancuso]

RM3d on left Rm2D on right shot with Iphone

The RM2D is a 10 on the sexy scale

 

[Garcia]

So the original properly exposed version was processed normally in C1 ...

Thanks Jack. This is all I wanted to know. No matter what unsharp mask routines I run in Photoshop after raw processed , there is a big difference in noise from using default unsharp mask and noise reduction settings in C1 or zeroing them.