Another bad IQ180 back? Please NOO

[Dan Santoso]

Hi Guys,

I got my IQ 2 days ago, I only played around and I had 60 count.

Today I took some more testing and I notice in the LCD (right bottom corner) there is a square purple tint about 1/4 the size of the preview image. It shows in the focus mask and highlight too. The actual image is fine nothing in Capture one although the initial loading preview show the tint in a second then it is gone.

I reset to default, unplug the battery or the back, but it is still there.

Oh my God for a 45K back, where is the QC? All the "SUPER CHEAP" DSLRs I bought in the past never have any defect...or maybe I'm lucky :deadhorse:

Can someone from Phase One tell me what is going on?



Thanks,
Dan

 

[Don Libby]

Have you contacted your dealer?

 

[Dan Santoso]

nop it is 12AM now i just found out 15 mins ago

 

[Jack]

Looks like a defective rear display for sure -- should not affect your images, but definitely contact your dealer to get it repaired/replaced.

 

[Garcia]

It's not the display, is the CCD or electronics arround it. Yellow/magenta squares.

C1 makes some magic and picture looks fine.

I've seen this defect or feature ( an awful one ), not sure , in my second Aptus 12 ,specially noticeable at high ISO settings. For some unknown reasons, Leaf Capture was able to automatically correct de picture but C1 didn't , not at least before last Aptus firmware upgrade. Now C1 takes care of the problem too , but yellowish rectangle is still visible on LCD screen.

 

[lance_schad]

Do all of your images in the preview exhibit this ? It looks similar to some LCC shots before they are analyzed/corrected in Capture One.

I see you are shooting a white wall or something, is it there if you expose it correctly?

I do not think it is your display, but possibly something with that particular exposure.

Lance

 

[Christopher]

I'm not sure if I'm correct, bit what you see is the sensor which is "stitched" from 4/8 parts. Th back itself has no correction for centerfold or what ever you want to call it that is done in C1. Now because the new LCD is so good one suddenly sees that stuff, which before wasn't visible on the crappy LCD phase had on the preivous backs.

 

[Dan Santoso]

I was playing with it in the shopping mall at night. So the lighting was fluorescent. It was fine for a while then it started to show up the pink file. It was iso 200-400 IIQ L and some S+ 800 + 1600 setting.

I did more test at home around 15+ shutters and they all has the purple.

This morning did some more test and it is goneeeee ( I unplug the battery overnite) weird.

under what setting do you think it is happen? I think it is a bug

 

[Dan Santoso]

I did expose pretty close in the mall but at home it was just whatever

 

[Jack]

I did not realize that was an actual image since it doesn't look like anything other than gray and white bars, sorry. So given it's an image, do you have latency at short or normal? I also note you are at ISO 800, so sensor anomalies are going to be more prominent on the rear LCD display since the back's built-in calibration file is not applied in the LCD view. Why it looks fine in C1.

 

[GrahamWelland]

Btw, I rest my case ... http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?p=304284#post304284 - call me a cynic if you want. However, I DO have every confidence that these initial teething problems will get resolved as more backs get into the hands of customers. Certainly we might expect that once Phase One have begun to satisfy the IQ180 demand (what a nice problem to have!!), the subsequent IQ160 and IQ140 releases will benefit from the fixes.

 

[Dan Santoso]

normal all default setting

here is phase one feedback:
The issue you are seeing is not a result of poor quality control.
May I ask what conditions and settings you have the back configured for? Also, who is your Phase One Dealer?

The display and resulting preview image is quite robus, more so than any other product, however it is not as robust as a Computer and Capture One software can provide. The display is fine and not at fault based on your description, what you are seeing is the RAW file without complete corrections that the Software can show you. Depending on the conditions you are shooting under, the back may not be able to show you the proper balance between all 4 quadrants of the CCD, which the software can properly display. To do this the back would have to process/anylize the image quite a bit more and, at 80MPX (a sizeable difference from Super Cheap DSLRs) it would take a bit more time and slow down your capture rate. As such, it is better to use the screen to check focus, composition, subject and exposure on the screen but leave the heavy preview render to Capture One for these specific back configuations.

Kind Regards,
Phase One Support


I took the samples in 2 different location, using iso 200-400 and S+ 800-1600. There were about 15+ images with the purple square, it is not just 1 case.

It is gone now, but I cant help my self to think what is the reason? Bug? initial release problem?

 

[Garcia]

After reading some technical docs from Dalsa, I realize that CCD chip info is read by means of not one, but four shift registers, one for every quadrant, so they can speed-up reading process. Hence, tolerances in A/D converter, preamplifiers and other electronics can lead to small differences in color temp between quadrants.

Some kind of calibration file with this an other info about particular behavior should be created at factory and took in account every time a raw file is debayered, an intensive process that couldn't be done by the back itself in order to free some computing recurses and let them available for other tasks as Phase One points.

Question now is how well balanced or perfect is my back.

 

[Christopher]

That's kinda what I tried to explain.

 

[Dan Santoso]

If any other owner ever experience this please tell so I dont feel lonely all alone here

 

[gazwas]

As such, it is better to use the screen to check focus, composition, subject and exposure on the screen but leave the heavy preview render to Capture One for these specific back configurations.

That's a bit of a lame excuse from P1!

How on earth "under those difficult circumstances" you can judge composition and exposure when all four corners of your image previews are different colours and exposures I've no idea?

I'm glad the removal of the battery solved your problem. It does seem to contradict the P1 support reply that it's down to the difficulty of the environment/settings you used for the back to render the preview correctly but removing the battery cleared the problem.

 

[Dan Santoso]

Well I also removed it yesterday but it did not solve it.

This weekend I will do extensive real shooting and we'll see

 

[goesbang]

If any other owner ever experience this please tell so I dont feel lonely all alone here

I have a version of the same problem with my IQ180. My P65+ occasionally shows the same symptom but for less than one second.
Frankly, it is such a minor issue and I NEVER have problems with final rendered files, so I don't care.
I am really surprised at the level of hysterics from some who have early backs.
If you want to ride the leading edge of the tech wave, there are always small hiccups. Anyone ever run a new-release Mac OS in the first few weeks?
Lighten up people. We have the worlds best digi backs in our hands by far. I've had mine for barely 2 weeks and there is already a bug fix update for it. This is a very good sign that Phase are putting a lot of energy into ensuring this back matures fast.
Dan, you have the best back in the world. Chill man...

 

[etrump]

How on earth "under those difficult circumstances" you can judge composition and exposure when all four corners of your image previews are different colours and exposures I've no idea?

While I appreciate Dan's concern, no LCD is appropriate for exposure by any means other than the histogram. While his example looked whacked by any standard it doesn't imply that the display is flawed.

At higher ISO you are magnifying any difference in the wafers by the same factor as the iso amplification of the sensor. Each sensor has a calibration but it is not fully applied at the back for speed and battery concerns. All of my previous backs p45, p30+, P65+ had the same issue but the quality of their displays hid a lot of that and I believe those backs displayed using the thumbnail instead of the actual file. I'm not saying that was Dan's problem entirely.

The more telling symptom is the fact that letting it cool down or changing the battery (ie resetting) made the problem go away. It suggested a firmware bug that disabled the minimal processing showing true raw information which is ugly to say the least.

I don't know the exact QC procedures but p1 tests every back, look at the exposure count and you will see how many shots they tried on your individual back.

 

[goesbang]

While I appreciate Dan's concern, no LCD is appropriate for exposure by any means other than the histogram. While his example looked whacked by any standard it doesn't imply that the display is flawed.

At higher ISO you are magnifying any difference in the wafers by the same factor as the iso amplification of the sensor. Each sensor has a calibration but it is not fully applied at the back for speed and battery concerns. All of my previous backs p45, p30+, P65+ had the same issue but the quality of their displays hid a lot of that and I believe those backs displayed using the thumbnail instead of the actual file. I'm not saying that was Dan's problem entirely.

The more telling symptom is the fact that letting it cool down or changing the battery (ie resetting) made the problem go away. It suggested a firmware bug that disabled the minimal processing showing true raw information which is ugly to say the least.

I don't know the exact QC procedures but p1 tests every back, look at the exposure count and you will see how many shots they tried on your individual back.

Ed makes some important points here. Firstly, judging exposure from the screen is pure folly. Histogram primarily, with exposure warning as secondary source of info.
Secondly, the initial image displayed is a rough and ready version of the thumbnail, replaced later by HiRes data. I'd suggest it is possible Dan's back has a rendering issue, but I'd be very surprised if there was a problem with processed files. In any event, I think the people who can help with this all work at his dealer and at Phase One, not here.
I am also curious if this phenomena is present when shooting tethered.
I have over the years owned every back Phase have made since the H5, except the P30+ and P25+, and my experience of them has been that they are always very attentive to user feedback, even if sometimes their communication style is very Scandinavian - blunt!
It is the intermittent nature of the problem that is baffling....
Cheers,