Next Phase One camera - what do you want?

[narikin]

You don't need to have inside information to know that Phase must be working on a successor to the DF. They have the best backs in the world, but badly need a better camera body. The DF is based on an ancient 1980's model, and Phase badly need one designed this century, not 35 years ago.

In the assumption that this is happening, perhaps people we can begin a wish list here. But let's keep it realistic please, not 6x9 sensors, or whatever.

The biggest question is clean slate or legacy compatibility. Keeping lens lenses compatible = similar body AF mechanism (not so good) AF motors in lens = finer focus points, good.
Single Power source or dual?
multi point AF? or at least amazingly good state of the art AF, from what is there.
Weatherproof a la S2?
removable finder?
vertical grip+shutter release integrated 1Ds style?
build quality level on a par with the 1D or S2

Personally my one big wish would be to have it quieter. S2 levels should be the maximum noise acceptable. In my dreams an option to use it with just the leaf shutter - the mirror/FP shutter locked open. This would involve an external viewfinder and MF, but advantage of using only the very quiet, almost vibration free leaf mechanism of the LS lenses.

I'd also like to see some new top drawer FAST glass, but that's probably a fantasy too. Why not an f2.0 standard, damn the price? (at least give both options f2.0 and f2.8) Now we have sub 6 micron pixels, we need truly top flight lenses (maybe buy rights to the Zeiss design for Sinar M series)

 

[Christopher]

Everything is just a guess.

- Only the new Schneider lenses will be supported, because I'm pretty sure they have the image circle for 6x6. Current Phase one / Mamyia won't be supported.
- There will be the option for a WL-Finder
- I hope the grip will still be removable. I don't want to carry such a big thing around.
- The most important thing will be to get vibrations down. This is the one most annoying "feature" of the current camera.

 

[dmeckert]

not that i'll ever be able to afford it, having just moved into an aptus 22...but...

nikon's upper end bodies will work with both AF-S and screw drive lenses...so that would be an ideal solution. keeps legacy compatibility, and allows for moving forward. another huge plus of in-lens AF motors is silence...no more of the whirring and chirping (which i think is kinda cute actually. lol). more power for the AF would be nice as well...the speed and accuracy of high end 35mm AF is lovely, if anything they should steal that.

i don't know that multi-point AF would entice me at all...i rarely use it on my nikon bodies. the center is the fastest and most accurate, and i've literally never had an issue focusing and recomposing. though having even 9 points, all double-cross, would be nice to have. when they start moving data fast enough to get MF into shooting sports and action, they'll worry about having 51 point 3D tracking.

weatherproofing should be mandatory on all professional cameras these days.

i don't lust after a removable finder. i've never used a camera with one, and never really lusted after anything but minor improvements in modern viewfinders. they're quite jam packed with technology and capability. of course, bigger, brigher, and clearer are always welcome. what would be sweet though, is if they could figure out doing something like the fuji x100 viewfinder...i have a feeling that's going to become more ubiquitous in the relatively near future.

i'd love at least an optional vertical grip that wasn't a bazillion dollars and linked to a wireless trigger system. just to control the camera. it's the one drawback of shooting MF for me. i almost never shoot horizontal. i think it should remain optional though...i think accessory grips are often more comfortable than integrated ones, and its nice to be able to take them off depending on what you're shooting.

i don't mind build quality not being top notch...as long as the ergonomics and controls are good. i could personally stand a little more thickness on the grip.

quieter is always better, so long as it doesn't sound cheesy. a nice thick and crisp (like bacon ) shutter/mirror sound is reassuring.

if a canikon 200/2 is $5k...imagine a mamiya/schneider 210/2...do you just add a 1 in front of the price? a 2?

 

[BradleyGibson]

I wouldn't be surprised to see something based on an updated Hy6 body at some point. No idea what they'll do re:lens mounts and compatibility, though.

 

[Kai Birkigt]

Narikin was writing about a "standard" 2.0 – standard in MF means 80 not 200

I would prefer an integrated vertical grip for to have the pro feeling of the Canon 1 Ds not of the 5 D with the amateur plastic grip. A removable grip sucks (the more with the always falling down L thing and with tripod use) because it is always more or less loose and it is never one entire body. A professional camera needs a vertical grip oke:

Second the battery/energy concept is from last century :deadhorse:

More AF cross sensors welcome.

Sealed body :thumbup:

Maybe this is more back related but 80 MP are enough, now give us more frames per second, like 2 or 2.5 – not all of us are shooting landscape

Thanks,
Kai

 

[Kai Birkigt]

Oh, and just a word concerning AF and lenses. I wouldn't really complain if the system would come with an ultrasonic AF one day...

 

[narikin]

I wouldn't be surprised to see something based on an updated Hy6 body at some point. No idea what they'll do re:lens mounts and compatibility, though.

I always found the Hy6 a little too big for what it was, and that flat panel LCD-on-a-tray was ugly as heck. Remember this is a 645 camera. It should stay smaller and more easy to hold than an RB/RZ type body, or Rollei 6000series.

Bigger than it needs to be is bad design.
Heavier than it needs to be is bad design.
Noisier than it needs to be is bad design.

additions:
state of the art mirror/pentaprism/screen/ finder please.
super bright and sharp accu-matte screen.

 

[GrahamWelland]

My personal wish list:

1) Maintain lens compatibility with all current AF lenses!! I think that this is a no-brainer.

2) Separate settings for exposure bracketing and exposure compensation adjustment - right now you can't set auto-bracket to +/- 1EV or more without that setting the exposure compensation to the same amount. I simply fail to understand why these are linked to the same value - maybe I'm missing something.

3) Auto focus that works better than a $50 point and shoot. Sorry folks, it's crap. Even with my 645DF.

4) More than three selectable auto-focus target points using some form of thumb control - all current DSLR's above $200 have this capability. I understand why it's not on the DF (new body design required) but if they are building a new camera, this seems like another no-brainer to me.

5) Single consistent battery. The current DF is, well, let's just say sub-optimal in it's battery consumption, particularly when cold where upon it's crap IMHO.

6) Put the interlock back on the mode selector. I'm sure that some prefer free-turning mode selector on the DF/AFD III but personally I far prefer the older push to turn control of the AFD II and it's predecessors.

7) How about a viewfinder that doesn't want to push itself off when so much as touch it or rub against the side when putting the camera in a bag?

8) Debug the camera so that it doesn't mysteriously decide to lock up when it's cold, the body batteries are at 80% or for some random reason. I KNOW that I'm not the only one who has had to do the battery out, power off, back power off, reassemble and hope that the shutter fires back to life. I can tell immediately when this is going to happen when shooting with mirror up or time delay release because of the sound of the mirror up clunk - and no my camera isn't faulty. I've been told that it's body/back synchronization or other such bugs but who knows?

9) If I'm paying $6k for a body, at least make it BETTER built, ergonomically superior and as tactile as any CaNikon pro DSLR. The add on grip is an embarrassment in this regard. The body actually isn't bad at all IMHO but it definitely isn't on a par with any of my Nikon D3 series cameras.

10) How about weather sealing? See (9). It's never caused me a problem even in pretty heavy rain but it would be better if I knew that it was at least sealed. I don't necessarily need it to be weatherproof, but certainly better sealed than it is.

11) Maybe invest in someone like Guigiaro to design the ergonomics of the camera. I'm 100% biased due to ergonomics of the D1-D3 series Nikons which IMHO are superb.

Btw, there's lot's to like about the current body such as the combined timer release & mirror lockup delay shooting which is something I'd love on my Nikons. However, the DF only gets a 'C' grade in my book, and I think I'm being generous. :deadhorse:

 

[narikin]

My personal wish list:

1) Maintain lens compatibility with all current AF lenses!! I think that this is a no-brainer.\

unfortunately that means sticking with body motor AF, which is less than optimal.

I am hoping they'll make a fresh start, despite my investment, bring out in-lens AF, with ultrasonic style ring motors. It's time to turn over a new leaf. Leica did it, with an all new lens range for the S2, each having motors in the lens "where it should be" and they sell far less product than Phase in MF, so.. there's little excuse.

Maybe there's a clever way to have both - body motor present for legacy lenses, but also a new range of lenses that doesn't connect with that AF pin system, but uses its own in lens motors?

 

[Graham Mitchell]

If this is a wish list...

1) detachable viewfinder options, and large view at that
2) rotating back, which means 6x6 viewfinder size (to accommodate 645 at both orientations) which ideally would be masked according to size and orientation of sensor
3) Minimal shutter lag
4) Modern battery solution which can power an attached digital back as well
5) Faster LS lens apertures
6) Better build quality and ergonomics
7) open interface
8) user-updatable firmware

 

[Ebe]

The top few, the list could get long !

1) Get shutter vibrations down. (*** Most Important Wish ***)
2) Ability to fine tune focus screen to match your digital back.
(shimming of focus screen to match your backs focus point)
3) Detachable viewfinders both large and bright. (Want a 45*)
4) Keep the "combined mirror lockup and self timer delay"
It is a good feature, would hate to see it fall to the side
5) Get rid of the Random camera lock-up the cameras are known for.
(See #8/Graham above)

 

[Dan Santoso]

The new camera will have anti shake, you can actually shake the camera while shooting and still retail sharp focus

Also removable prism, and you can use the old grip.

btw they already have the prototype, it will be released in september.

my wish list:
100% viewfinder
amazing focusing with 9 points

 

[gazwas]

btw they already have the prototype, it will be released in september.

This a guess/wish or inside info?

 

[GrahamWelland]

The new camera will have anti shake, you can actually shake the camera while shooting and still retail sharp focus

Now that would be a neat trick to pull off with a removable back and existing lenses. :ROTFL:

 

[Ben Rubinstein]

One of the main things that seems to annoy people is that their $1000 DSLR's have a far more advanced body than these MF cameras. Pentax seems to have done the right thing by creating a DSLR type MF camera with all the features of its regular DSLR cameras (especially focus) plus dual slot and weather proofing. I think take that body and add a WLF and tethering assuming the live view of the IQ backs and you would pretty much have the dream MF camera.

Or am I missing stuff?

 

[MaxKißler]

IMHO in-lens hypersonic motors will prevail, even in the mf world. Pentax is already building lenses this way while maintaining compatibility to their legacy af lenses. Phase shouldn't lack behind in this important development as it would make their system even more versatile.

However, I do hope they would include a build in finder magnification where you could set certain magnification factors. So if you'd own a IQ140 you could set it to 1.3 and would have a nice and completely filled finder. Unfortunately, this isn't going to happen...

Apart from that, the cold mirror lock up Graham W. discribed is a real pita. You can tell from it's sound that something isn't right and you have to reset the camera. This should really be fixed (perhaps in a firmware update so even users of older camera bodies would profit from that?).

Another cool thing would be a feature that would work comperable to Hasselblad's True Focus.

 

[dougpeterson]

Everyone talking about body lockups... if you're not using DF body firmware 1.21 that is likely the source of the problem. 1.14 and 1.21 (especially 1.21) should have no occasional lockups or other "quirks". The earliest firmware versions like 1.01, 1.04, and 1.07 (no huge surprise) definitely had some quirks like that. Speak with your dealers!

 

[Paul David]

1. Controls that can be operated with light gloves on. Self timer button that can be pressed with normal fingers.

2. Light weight for field use.

3. AF Microadjustment like Canon

 

[narikin]

3. AF Microadjustment like Canon

good one - forgot about that. yes please.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Everyone talking about body lockups... if you're not using DF body firmware 1.21 that is likely the source of the problem. 1.14 and 1.21 (especially 1.21) should have no occasional lockups or other "quirks". The earliest firmware versions like 1.01, 1.04, and 1.07 (no huge surprise) definitely had some quirks like that. Speak with your dealers!

Thanks Doug. I just checked myself and I am behind one. Have 1.14 loaded.