Next Phase One camera - what do you want?

[Sharokin]

Guy my point was about the blanket statement the TS made about Phase having unquestionably the best backs. I obviously don't agree.
My example was the H4D 40 vs the Phase P40 Plus.

Yes without questions the H4D is a better camera than the DF. But my argument goes further. The back is better too since it shoots high quality ASA at full res, all leaf shutter lenses, the 100 f/2.2 (if you photograph people) which is worth switching to by itself.

I also prefer the look coming from Kodak sensors over Phase. In 35mm cameras the most desired files came from cameras with Kodak sensors. Leica M8 and M9, Kodak 14, and the Leica DMR.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Well certainly arguments for both no question. But I could argue a load of points i don't agree with you but really what is the point. Its like two kids arguing about which water pistol is better. I simply stay out of all those kinds of arguments as it gets nowhere but i could certainly point you to a few forums that love that stuff.

I could not resist. :ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

Its Friday people laugh

 

[fotografz]

You don't need to have inside information to know that Phase must be working on a successor to the DF. They have the best backs in the world, but badly need a better camera body.

Best backs according to who people on this forum?
To me the 40MP is the sweet spot for photographing people and without question the H4D 40 is the superior camera AND back compared to the Phase 40plus.

The hype for the Phase coming from its dealers and lobbyist on these forums is simply amazing.

Doesn't matter what you shoot with my friend ... your work is amazing!

-Marc

 

[GrahamWelland]

The hype for the Phase coming from its dealers and lobbyist on these forums is simply amazing.

I think you'll find just as vociferous support for Hasselblad from the various owners here too. It's just that there's less of them here. I'm sure that if we were to go visit the Hasselblad forums on the web that we'd see the same discussion but with Hasselblads being the 'arguably best back'

Kodak vs Dalsa is obviously a personal preference and undoubtedly subjective vs objective. Whatever floats your boat is the right one for you. :thumbs:

 

[David Grover / Phase One]

David, thank you so far!

I am really interested in how the True Focus works in reality. Sounds smart and I was surprised when it was announced why nobody has had this idea before. Guess I have to rent a Hassi again...

The open/closed system discussion is a topic for me too. I find it to be a wrong decision having made the Hassi system a closed one.

Kai

Hi Kai,

My pleasure!

There is probably a good chance you have an iPhone, right? If not, probably seen one.

Well the sensor that the iPhone has to detect movement (for gaming, screen rotation, other uses) is the same kind of component that is in the base of the H4D.

Therefore in using True Focus, you simply have to point the central AF sensor to the area in the image that you wish to focus on, hit the True Focus button (resting conveniently on the rear near your thumb), recompose and shoot.

During the recompose part, camera movement is detected and using a bit of maths we can offset the focus to be more accurate based on the position of your chosen AF point.

Sounds a bit crazy(!) but in practice it works.

With high sensors increasing in resolution and requiring tighter tolerances across the whole system it is absolute correct to integrate all parts. You can't do this with manufacturer A+B+C making different pieces.

David

 

[Kai Birkigt]

David, thanks again, I knew about the gyro system and find it to be a smart solution. I would love to have it in my DF as well. Shooting models in a set which means not only portraiture often means to pan the camera – obviously resulting in unsharp photos while aperture wide open...

Some doubting must be allowed, if Phase and Hasselblad could not produce fitting parts – but anyway, it is like it is and it's a bummer.

On the other hand, what only the DF (should be read as the P1 system) has (and I don't want to miss anymore) is the

- 1/1,600 flash synch time
- V-Grip integrated Profoto Air system
- Capture One integrated Profoto light controlling module

Kai

 

[Graham Mitchell]

With high sensors increasing in resolution and requiring tighter tolerances across the whole system it is absolute correct to integrate all parts. You can't do this with manufacturer A+B+C making different pieces.

I beg to differ. Parts from all manufacturers are subject to sample variation. Hasselblad is not immune. Best to solve the issue for everyone by including a fine tuning system.

 

[fotografz]

I beg to differ. Parts from all manufacturers are subject to sample variation. Hasselblad is not immune. Best to solve the issue for everyone by including a fine tuning system.

True, if there IS an issue.

So far, I've had the same set of lenses including the HC 100/2.2, and have used them on 9 different successive H body/back/prism sets ... with no need for calibration or adjustments ... and apparently it's holding true for my higher resolution H4D/60.

Personally, I don't care how it is achieved ... whether it is through a tightly controlled integrated system, quality parts control, or individual factory calibration of every single camera set ... just as long as I don't have to fiddle with every camera or lens combination. If some individual HC lens doesn't measure up, I'd say send it back for one that does ... which I haven't had to do ... yet.

I also haven't heard many complaints about Phase One regarding this issue ... but I can't attest to it personally.

Again, the proof is in the pudding. Theory verses practice.

-Marc

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Not sure i have been lucky or what but every lens or back i have used on my DF no issues and that is a lot of lenses and backs. I'm with Marc prove is in the pudding not the marketing.

 

[Jack]

Sidebar note: Is there any reason that with a digital back, a body (or lens for that matter) even needs a shutter? Can't they get the back read cycle very accurately using internal electronics? If so, this would eliminate flash synch and shutter vibration issues. The mirror is still there, but that can be handled a la Hassy's pre-MLU solution. This would be my personal number one.

Eliminating the shutter would also likely allow for a full 6x6 capture area and rotatable back within the existing lens flange-to-sensor spec, eliminating the need for a vertical grip. Check my feature 2.

Improved AF is a no-brainer and it will come, likely user tunable by lens a la Canon. 12 selectable/average-able points would be great with a hyper accurate center point. Include optional af bracketing with settable increments for custom focus stacking. Check.

Exposure feedback taken from the back's histo, also user tunable for offset and built-in 3 frame exp bracketing off that initial reading if desired -- check.

Same battery source as back, but maybe x2.

GPS would be nice, not mandatory.

Beyond that, I'll take all remaining bells and whistles

 

[jduncan]

One of the main things that seems to annoy people is that their $1000 DSLR's have a far more advanced body than these MF cameras. Pentax seems to have done the right thing by creating a DSLR type MF camera with all the features of its regular DSLR cameras (especially focus) plus dual slot and weather proofing. I think take that body and add a WLF and tethering assuming the live view of the IQ backs and you would pretty much have the dream MF camera.

Or am I missing stuff?

Yes. I have a question: Does the multiple auto focus points of the pentax are accumulated at the center of the frame? Reviewers tend not to mention the distribution and I am not sure.

thanks

 

[Paul David]

Jack,

Don't forget a mirror lockup + self-timer button or lever/switch that human hands can turn on and off, preferably with gloves on!
Paul

 

[Jack]

Jack,

Don't forget a mirror lockup + self-timer button or lever/switch that human hands can turn on and off, preferably with gloves on!
Paul

That's exactly what I meant when I said "a la Hassy"

 

[jduncan]

Well certainly arguments for both no question. But I could argue a load of points i don't agree with you but really what is the point. Its like two kids arguing about which water pistol is better. I simply stay out of all those kinds of arguments as it gets nowhere but i could certainly point you to a few forums that love that stuff.

I could not resist. :ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

Its Friday people laugh

:ROTFL:

Ok, seriously, 25k water pistols that is

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I want a Red one

 

[etrump]

Don't forget the ferrari, porsche or vw logo! LOL

 

[djonesii]

A proper case!

 

[Anders_HK]

Having asked around quite a bit and based on my own guess I believe the next Phase camera will likely be based on the DF and will not be more radical. I might be right, I might not be, but regardless... Hy6 seems as a camera that is difficult to beat and is the current state of art. I never thought I would be interested in it, but holding and using it convinced me.

A key question is perhaps what Phase - Leaf will make with Hy6, if anything, since they appear to sit on the rights to develop it.

Sure, they could make a 645 camera out of its parts, but why? A 6x6 camera has the advantage of a much brighter focus screen and rotation of sensor instead of camera. Also, it is my understanding that the Schneider and Zeiss lenses for the Hy6 are better than the lenses for the Mamiya.

Also Hy6 is made in Germany (current by DHW) and which arguably and in my opinion and experience stands for a higher quality product than made in Japan.

I wouldn't be surprised to see something based on an updated Hy6 body at some point. No idea what they'll do re:lens mounts and compatibility, though.

+1

I always found the Hy6 a little too big for what it was

If anything the Hy6 is SMALLER than Mamiya AFD cameras, and far more ergonomic and well balanced. Mamiya AFD cameras are an aged design and way heavy and bulky by todays standards fir what 645 should be. Mine was AFD3...

Now if we speak of lenses, some are for Hy6 HEAVY, e.g. the 110/2 that is a beast of 1.3kg but optics arguably more stellar than Hassy 110/2!

- Only the new Schneider lenses will be supported, because I'm pretty sure they have the image circle for 6x6. Current Phase one / Mamyia won't be supported.

Not possible, since 6x6 requires a larger distance between lens flange to sensor...

-------

Thus my own bet was on going with Hy6 and Leaf Afi and forget about what might or might not come... and, ehh... simply try enjoy photography

... and Hy6 feels as a real camera in hands.

Many AF points, faster AF and the like... Uhhg... this is MEDIUM FORMAT... and should be expected to be more basic for more advanced users. Thus aimed at users who command more knowledge of focus and exposure, and who simply demand more control as opposed to auto features and buttons that gets in the way. --- at least my humble opinion (and one reason why I not liked dslr)...

Regards
Anders

 

[Jack]

Not possible, since 6x6 requires a larger distance between lens flange to sensor...

Not necessarily -- considering the shutter assembly could be removed, and the mirror done as a pellicle or articulated on a cam...