Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

[tashley]

Well it's finally here and I managed to get in 75 shots on two bodies (DF and WRS) and five lenses (Mammy 28, Phase 80 2.8, Schneider Kreutz 110 LS, Hartblei 45 TS and Schneider 35 XL) and so far, so really quite good.

The Mammy 28 won't do and will have to go. I think I have a good sample, but as a lens design it has never really convinced me and its weaknesses aren't artistically interesting.

The Phase 80mm is very good

The Sch/Kr 110 LS is as excellent as ever

The Hartblei is just mental, and anyone who thinks focus mask is truly useful in a tight corner should try iterative Scheimpflug with it. But I can forgive the Hartblei's being now officially out of its depth because it's errors are exciting and to my eye beautiful. It is also extremely sharp on centre when correctly focussed and I love it's saturated colour rendition.

The 35XL manages to excel as it always has: set it to F16 on a good tripod and a Cube, focus at around 5 metres, and all is good. But so far I have not tried shifts on it , and that will be the true test. However, at ISO35 and with correctly done LCC using the technical wide angle function in C1, I am not seeing any problems unshifted other than a bit of noise in the far reaches when I have underexposed (in order to avoid blowing a bright white sky).

Other thoughts:

I am going to get a CF if for the 35XL if it fares reasonably with moderate shifts. I hope that will allow, happily, the upcoming Live View to work without further ND filters.

I LOVE the artificial horizon. Cube bubble levels are their only inaccurate feature and the IQ180 version is lovely.

The screen is a joy and helps, rather than gets in the way of, the process of taking a photo. I don't know if it's worth all the extra cash but for me it might make the difference between staying in and getting out of MF.

I am initially unimpressed with Sensor+... at anything over ISO1600 I'd rather have a 5DII - but I need to work with it a lot more before I firm that opinion up.

General speed and consistency and UI are great BUT on a lens like the Hartblei with MF and manual aperture, using MUP leads to failed fires about half the time, for no apparent reason, and you have to turn the camera on and off (sometimes twice) before it will unlock the mirror for another try. I am almost certainly doing something wrong but I don't know what.

Anyhoooo... so far so good. A lot more testing to be done before I know what I can and can't make it do but me likee.

tim

ps thanks a LOT to Doug Peterson at CI for all the PM help he has given me: he has nothing to gain from it (I am in the UK) but his passion, commitment and general very nice guy-ness shine through regardless. He is the man. Add him to all the helpful people here, especially Jack and Guy, and I feel in very competent advisory hands as I explore the new tech.

 

[dougpeterson]

You're very welcome. I know you've been waiting for your back with great excitement! I'm very glad for you it arrived!

Generally speaking I'd also rather have a 5DII for anything above ISO1600. But I'd rather have one camera I can shoot for everything if my needs only extend to ISO1600. ISO3200 is really only usable (for my purposes) for black and white images using the Fine Grain slider in C1.

The magic of Sensor+ to me is that I can shoot both super high quality ISO32 80mp images and ISO1600 20mp images (and gain shooting speed) without having to carry two bodies.

Also, any time you start working with the top end of ISO from any new (to you) camera you'll have to put in the time to play with processing settings to make your own trade-offs between grain, detail, color, noise, and clarity. Never (fully) trust someone else's suggested settings and definitely never trust defaults.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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[dougpeterson]

General speed and consistency and UI are great BUT on a lens like the Hartblei with MF and manual aperture, using MUP leads to failed fires about half the time, for no apparent reason, and you have to turn the camera on and off (sometimes twice) before it will unlock the mirror for another try. I am almost certainly doing something wrong but I don't know what.

There does seem to be a MUP bug. We've experienced it and are looking into it. You should double check that your DF firmware is up to date (1.23 as of this week) as it may eliminate the issue to simply update the DF firmware (but also maybe not - still researching). These sorts of bugs tend to be sorted out very quickly via a firmware update; I'd contact your dealer so they are aware.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________

Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One Partner of the Year
Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More

National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter | RSS Feed
Buy Capture One 6 at 10% off

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Congrats Tim . Yes I'm with Doug up to Iso 1600 it's a thing of beauty but you need more than that get a DSLR. For me I never get past 1600 and if I had to I would rather light a whole stadium instead. Lol

But think about this where else you gonna get a 80 mpx monster and a 20 mpx save your butt in one cam . Nowhere

For me I make that iso1600 my replacement for a DSLR after that it's a pray. Lol

 

[Googaliser]

Tim - congratulations. Sounds like ours were in the same batch - mine is now in transit to me in HK

 

[Jack]

Congrats Tim,

Bit of a roundabout journey for you to get here though it was, I think you'll be really, really happy with your decision

 

[Wayne Fox]

The 35XL manages to excel as it always has: set it to F16 on a good tripod and a Cube, focus at around 5 metres, and all is good. But so far I have not tried shifts on it , and that will be the true test. However, at ISO35 and with correctly done LCC using the technical wide angle function in C1, I am not seeing any problems unshifted other than a bit of noise in the far reaches when I have underexposed (in order to avoid blowing a bright white sky).

Apologize if this is hijacking the thread, but the other thread has run out of steam, and this seems a good thread to post real world experiences with the new IQ180 and various lenses.

Guess I need to know what I'm doing wrong, because at this point the 35xl is unusable. Without any shifting on my 12max/IQ180 using the schneider 35xl with center filter, if I apply an LCC for technical wide angle, I get overcorrection for falloff and still have some color cast which is not corrected.

Uncorrected image

uncorrected LCC

corrected LCC ... so far so good

image with LCC applied

As you can see, my edges are lighter, and I still have a magenta cast on sides and on top.

Here I've reduced the Falloff slider to 35% then added a +.21EV vignette correction, I may be able to fiddle with these sliders and come up with a decent setting, but no matter what I do, I still see color cast.

I do see banding ... not consistent there is more on the right side of the image than the left, but the LCC seems to remedy that.

This is with the lens unshifted, I"m sure shifting would add to the problem.

I'm confused by the discoloration of the LCC shot in the middle of the image ... not sure what is causing color casts there. Seems it should be fairly neutral until the edges where the angles are getting extreme.

Any advice as to something I may be doing most appreciated, as my experience is definitely different.

 

[GrahamWelland]

Wayne, that's one strange looking LCC ... you might expect the EV fall off and perhaps a linear magenta/blue shift across the image but the central color rendering or repeating magenta/blue shift looks very unusual.

I'm intrigued as to what the answer will be to your questions & observations. I think that there's a whole new set of sensor technology/optical phenomena to learn about here. :watch:

Btw, do you think that the central magenta cast is related to the subject? It seems to be a close match to the white vehicles/foliage in the middle ground of your image.

 

[jotloob]

Apologize if this is hijacking the thread, but the other thread has run out of steam, and this seems a good thread to post real world experiences with the new IQ180 and various lenses.

Guess I need to know what I'm doing wrong, because at this point the 35xl is unusable. Without any shifting on my 12max/IQ180 using the schneider 35xl with center filter, if I apply an LCC for technical wide angle, I get overcorrection for falloff and still have some color cast which is not corrected.



uncorrected LCC

corrected LCC ... so far so good

Wayne

That is quite a color cast issue you report here .
For my better understanding , can you please explain : what is an uncorrected LCC and then in turn of course , what is a corrected LCC .
What is corrected and why ? ? ?

 

[GrahamWelland]

Jurgen,

The uncorrected LCC image is the image as shot using a white translucent card. The corrected LCC is what you get when you have Capture One calculate the LCC and which it then applies to the original image. You should end up with a uniform grey result.

 

[tashley]

I'll do some more tests today but try:
1) no cf with 'analyse technical wide angle'

And

2) cf with 'analyse'

I have a (very likely stupid) idea but am on iphone and it's too long to type!

 

[jotloob]

Jurgen,

The uncorrected LCC image is the image as shot using a white translucent card. The corrected LCC is what you get when you have Capture One calculate the LCC and which it then applies to the original image. You should end up with a uniform grey result.

Thanks Graham

This is understood so far . As I work with PHOCUS it looks a bit different .
I create , using PHOCUS function , a LCC correction image , like C1 does , but I have never really seen the corrected LLC which is then is "applied" to my desired image .
All I could see up to now is , that the color cast disappears . More or less perfect .
I will check for that in PHOCUS later today .

 

[tashley]

Here is an example from yesterday evening. The corrected LCC frame is slightly too red in the edges and corners, and slightly too weak on green - I didn't eyedrop the frame to check this yesterday evening because I was having too much fun and because the result looked OK but then I wasn't really going to use it for anything other than a quick test. Nonetheless I wouldn't say it was egregious. Maybe it's worse in some circumstances than others?

I also tried a version having used the simple Analyse, rather than Analyse Technical Wide Angle LCC tool and the result is brighter but has similar mild colour variation.

Do other people think the corrected version above has an obvious cast?

 

[jotloob]

Tim

Your files are protected . Hence , can't have a look .

 

[tashley]

Sorry, will undo that now!

 

[tashley]

OK here's another quick try-out from this morning. First an LCC corrected unshifted frame, 35XL on Cambo WRS, F16 and ISO35, ignore the EXIF: shutter speed was 1/30th (and I think the IQ180 is less good at guessing shutter speed than the P65+ was...). Secondly a flat stitch made from two frames, one shifted ten left and one ten right, both with bespoke WA LCC frames made and applied. I have stitched it using the whole of the right hand frame so you can see all of it and its attendant falloff, so not truly fair, but this is clearly not useable in any event. I will try to ascertain to what degree I actually can shift and get away with it. BTW all these shots were taken at the same WB and I have made no other corrections aside from LCC. The shifted frames are darker because the light was moving and I wanted to keep as much else constant as possible.

 

[dchew]

Wayne,
Similar to Graham's notes, does the LCC always look like that in regards to the magenta band 30% up the frame horizontally? Or was it unique to this image/subject? What happens if you remove the center filter? Obviously some things will be worse, but I wonder if the band is still there without the CF.

That band looks a bit like the one Christopher posted here. Not sure if you saw that thread. Also not sure if/how he resolved the issue, but it looked like it might be a problem with the back. If you take an LCC with the back on your DF, then do some dramatic adjustments in C1 like Christopher did in that thread, is there any hint of that magenta band?

Dave

 

[tashley]

Here's another, this time shifted five right and five left then flat stitched down more or less the middle to give a file 12203x7760, or 94.7mp.

Again, 35XL on Cambo WRS, IQ180, 35 ISO, 1/30th F16 with bespoke LCC's made using analyse tech WA.

What do people see (other than the luminosity mismatch due to the flat stitching and light changing a little)?

 

[gazwas]

Tim, I'd say it was still unusable IMO. The far edges of the frame on both sides of the stitch have lost most of their colour. Also, the scene you have chosen is what I would call a kind example. If that was a building interior with shifting light patterns, textures and colours the results would be terrible IMO.

I had some similar issues on my P65+ with a 43XL out at 15mm and the results just look weird. I had to correct the images in PS to even out the colour loss. Might be a time to switch to Rodenstock wides as I'm thinking of doing a 43XL, 40HR-W swap or just going full out for the 32HR-W.

 

[tashley]

Hartblei at F16 1/20th ISO35 on a Cube, C1 lens adjustment for Phase 45mm TS applied.

Full sized JPEG image available at
http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/p512009864/h185980ca#hb67e7c4