yaya
Active member
Peter you're looking under the wrong light:toocool:I am geting middle aged now and am finding....
Middle aged men like us should be doing other things :OT::OT:
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Peter you're looking under the wrong light:toocool:I am geting middle aged now and am finding....
I understand all the history Lance. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't Phase reverse engineer to allow use of the Phase backs on the H1 and H2? Some years ago I asked if Phase was going to do the same with the H2F (which also takes film backs so the mount would work) ... and was told that it probably wouldn't happen because it most likely wasn't worth it.There are a great number of Hasselblad platform supporters out there that are orphaned. They have been using the digital back of their choice on the H platform and have a wide range of lenses. They cannot purchase new bodies and are forced to look on the secondary market to find back ups and replacements.
I think a simple gesture by Hasselblad of 'opening up'/'unlocking' the H2F body would go a long way. I am not asking that they give all the functionality of their H4 platform, but just the basics that were available on the original H2. Besides the mount, all you need is a flashsync for the most basic functionality. The original line of lenses suite most just fine as well.
From my experience as PhaseOne reseller and I am sure others will agree we are still selling a number of systems on the H platform. The users who use it like it and don't want to change, but are being forced to and that is leaving a bad taste in their mount in regards to Hasselblad.
Let people chose where they put their backs and reward those who want a complete systems with features they cannot live without.
Lance
btw a digital X-pan would rock.
It's not really worth going into. But for the record that is wrong. In fact Phase was strongly involved in the actual development of the digital interface of the H platform as at the time Hassy was still 2-3 years from buying Imacon and cooperation between the companies at that point was quite high (see also: the rebranding of the Phase One Lightphase as the Phase One H5).Correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't Phase reverse engineer to allow use of the Phase backs on the H1 and H2?
Couple of things:I understand all the history Lance. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't Phase reverse engineer to allow use of the Phase backs on the H1 and H2? Some years ago I asked if Phase was going to do the same with the H2F (which also takes film backs so the mount would work) ... and was told that it probably wouldn't happen because it most likely wasn't worth it.
Because if they don't, they run the real risk of rental houses switching over to Phase cameras and backs. Phase backs rule the rental world, and many people would rather avoid using a Hasselblad rental back if they haven't used one before and are unfamiliar with the post-processing of the files and how to get the best results. So by opening up the H platform again, people can continue to rent what they are most comfortable with - Hasselblad cameras and Phase backs. Just my $0.02.Modular, yes! Open, why? So I can put an IQ back on a H camera? Why would Hassey want me to do that?
But unfortunately this business model will not work, given that 90-95% of the cost are in the back and the rest in the camera. So how should Hasselblad then make business - means get the necessary revenue to fund their back evolution? With that model Hasselblad will disappear for sure.Because if they don't, they run the real risk of rental houses switching over to Phase cameras and backs. Phase backs rule the rental world, and many people would rather avoid using a Hasselblad rental back if they haven't used one before and are unfamiliar with the post-processing of the files and how to get the best results. So by opening up the H platform again, people can continue to rent what they are most comfortable with - Hasselblad cameras and Phase backs. Just my $0.02.
Thanks Doug, no proof necessary, nor does it really matter what happened or when. That was then and this is now.It's not really worth going into. But for the record that is wrong. In fact Phase was strongly involved in the actual development of the digital interface of the H platform as at the time Hassy was still 2-3 years from buying Imacon and cooperation between the companies at that point was quite high (see also: the rebranding of the Phase One Lightphase as the Phase One H5).
Much of this is documented in the public record due to the recently resolved lawsuit for those who are really interested.
But as you say, it really should matter less to the end-user what brand, or what the history of brands are, and rather the current and future of a product line.
See also: Michael Reichman's initial review of the H1.
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It's a great business model. Look how well it worked for Rollei and Sinar.But unfortunately this business model will not work, given that 90-95% of the cost are in the back and the rest in the camera. So how should Hasselblad then make business - means get the necessary revenue to fund their back evolution? With that model Hasselblad will disappear for sure.
....ouch!It's a great business model. Look how well it worked for Rollei and Sinar.
yaya - this is a very 'sad' link - I make myself feel better by reminding myself the old saying - "you are as old as the woman you are withPeter you're looking under the wrong light:toocool:
Middle aged men like us should be doing other things :OT::OT:
I've found that to be considerably more expensive than my photographyyaya - this is a very 'sad' link - I make myself feel better by reminding myself the old saying - "you are as old as the woman you are with
Pete
I think this is a very important set of comments.Being neutral in this and yes i am no matter what anyone thinks. Is everyone needs to up there game PERIOD. If not everyone will take a bath on our existing systems. Just that simple. You can argue every point on earth between the systems, frankly pretty freaking boring if you ask me but if these do not get in the hands of end users everyone will lose. If we only have 2 real players left they need to give us better products and improvements to succeed. Each system has there strengths and also weaknesses. Both companies need to balance that out better than they have. Hassy as it is today needs more R&D and a infusion of cash to build new and better product ( we can say that about anyone frankly) but no one really knows what these investors WILL do or NOT do as well. Its a guessing game plain and simple right now until they start having movement on there plans and WE can see what they are going to do. No guarantees on anything here.
Exactly my point!It's a great business model. Look how well it worked for Rollei and Sinar.
Totally agree with your Marc. But then how do you reconcile this earlier comment, which seems to be contrary to your above unified statement:My take on all this from years as a marketing and advertising executive is that the major MFD players and their users had better stop slashing and bickering at one another in their competitive zeal and wake up to smell their companies burning in the flames that the future holds for them. The world of MFD needs more innovation and most certainly needs a broader based and unified educational thrust beyond just "hawking" their wares in the marketplace ... a strategy that IMO could well competitively put all of them out of business with-in a decade or sooner.
-Marc
My .02 is you cannot have it both ways. Hassy hurt itself when it totally closed off its system to third-party backs, just like Sinar and Rollei did. The only difference is Hassy had enough installed base to survive it. I remember when they did it, and we all started saying, "It's the Sony Betamax debacle all over again!" Seems to be a marketing strategy that has proven itself to fail time and time again. Hopefully the new owners are brighter than the last set were and realize that by working together you can make the entire pie larger before you divvy it up, and thus end up with a bigger single piece than the entire pie was before you started. I know Phase and Leaf get this...Modular, yes! Open, why? So I can put an IQ back on a H camera? Why would Hassey want me to do that?
The problem is that Japs are very good at mass productions, especially no frill jobs.Hasselblad has a seriously strong brand name.
If there is one company that could go toe-to-toe with Canon/Nikon then it would be Hasselblad. Think about it
Maybe they shouldn't try to compete with Leica, PHase etc...Maybe they should become the German competitor to Japanese Canon/Nikon. That might not mean a future in DMF...but rather a future in wherever canikon is going.
Well, these types of threads always turn into speculation...so the crazier the speculation the better imho
I also agree that all MFD players have to work together to get a bigger slice of the Whole Photography market.My .02 is you cannot have it both ways. Hassy hurt itself when it totally closed off its system to third-party backs, just like Sinar and Rollei did. The only difference is Hassy had enough installed base to survive it. I remember when they did it, and we all started saying, "It's the Sony Betamax debacle all over again!" Seems to be a marketing strategy that has proven itself to fail time and time again. Hopefully the new owners are brighter than the last set were and realize that by working together you can make the entire pie larger before you divvy it up, and thus end up with a bigger single piece than the entire pie was before you started. I know Phase and Leaf get this...
My .02 only,
Let's refrain from the word Japs. To many it is taken as a insult. Thanks GuyThe problem is that Japs are very good at mass productions, especially no frill jobs.
Here in India the Germans are trying to compete with Japs in automobile sector, but are failing miserably due to
- Excellent technology, but low reliability and high maintenance cost
- More than twice the price of comparable Japanese product.
So who buys the German Automobiles? Those who want the prestige and can afford the maintenance costs! Not the general consumer, nor the fleet operator, and that is where the money is. Getting a German Automobile conforms to the old Indian saying "any one can get an Elephant, but few can feed it".
I see quite a few similarity in the photography field. Europeans make the most sophisticated equipment which costs as much as a semi-professional Japanese DSLR to service, while the Japanese stuff requires service rarely, and then too costs a fraction of the European equipment. Hence no matter what Hasselblad does, in my opinion they should never try to compete with Japs, but stick to what they do best - top of the line equipment, and not low/middle end consumer stuff.
The unified statement was in reference to spreading the gospel of MFD without getting competitive about it, Jack. I don't think the companies should become one with the cosmos or anything like that.Totally agree with your Marc. But then how do you reconcile this earlier comment, which seems to be contrary to your above unified statement:
My .02 is you cannot have it both ways. Hassy hurt itself when it totally closed off its system to third-party backs, just like Sinar and Rollei did. The only difference is Hassy had enough installed base to survive it. I remember when they did it, and we all started saying, "It's the Sony Betamax debacle all over again!" Seems to be a marketing strategy that has proven itself to fail time and time again. Hopefully the new owners are brighter than the last set were and realize that by working together you can make the entire pie larger before you divvy it up, and thus end up with a bigger single piece than the entire pie was before you started. I know Phase and Leaf get this...
My .02 only,