why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks...

[archivue]

a friend of mine ask me why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras ? and if i will have to make this choice again, will i stick with the RM3D ?

So, i've send him an email with my answer (in french... ), then i thought i should share it with the community... with my bad english... sorry about that !

First point : i've found out that focussing on a ground glass wasn't 100% accurate with wide angle lenses and digital back... especially my 35 XL...
so, the linhof techno wasn't for me ! too bad, because you don't need to have your lenses calibrated for that camera... but you eyes gets tyred at the end of the day of shooting !

Second point : while when the RM3D came out, Alpa claims :
"There are camera manufacturers who are very proud e.g. of their homemade 1'800° helical mount (5x 360° = five full turns from the shortest focusing distance to "infinity"). Indeed: such a 1'800° helical mount (one for all lenses) is certainly very precise due to the fine thread. The practicability of "5x 360°" and of the corresponding special system where you have to "translate" meters/feet in a peculiar division system from e.g. 1 to 34 is another matter. One thing is absolutely correct: a precise helical mount is important - no doubt about this (do you remember the Chinese made "FOTOMAN" helical mounts? - a nightmare concerning their precision!). The original helical mounts made by Rodenstock and Schneider-Kreuznach for their lenses and used e.g. by ALPA, CAMBO, HORSEMAN and others are perfectly precise enough for their tasks and they have proved this with ten thousands of lenses."

i've found the opposite !
few months later they produced the HPF rings... Cambo didn't...

source :
http://www.alpa.ch/en/news/2010/some-thoughts-about-sliding-backs.html?year=&num=


Third point : i'm the type of photographer that need ground glass or waist level for composition purpose... that's personal, some prefer Range finder, others reflex... so Alpa wasn't a choice for me, they keep on saying that a sliding back is impossible to make, because it can keeps the level of tolerance on a long run... maybe they are right, but with my modest Aptus 22, i have already shoot 35 000 pics in two and a half year, and it stills ok !

Forth point : in the field of architecture photography, it happens some times that a tripod can't be used for one shot... so the sinar Artech wasn't an option also for my use !

Fifth point : i mostly shoot architecture and artworks... Arca are offering a complete system so i can share the same sliding back and all my lenses with my RM3D and a monorail F line 69 or even better M line Two

6th point : the Rm3D can be mounted on an arca rail, the rail fits directly on all the new style Arca heads, that way, you can easily rotate around the nodal point if needed !

7th point : for "real" stitching, it's much better when the lense doesn't move... that way, you just move the sensor to record all the part of a "real" image provide by the fixed lens ! The Rm3d is build that way, no need for extra stuff... you can make real stitching in horizontal or vertical ! You can stitch with the camera movements or with the rotaslide.

8th point : first i didn't like the handle, but i've bought their optional part that comes between the body and the handle... that's perfect, even in hot atmosphere !

9th point : i must confess that i don't use the view finder too much, but compare to the competitors, it is by far the best !

Ok, Ok... now what i dislike with it...

- with the rotaslide on, it's not easy to pack !

- you can't shims your digital back... but you can always offset the values on the ring... so, at the end not a big deal... mine is perfect, but i wonder, if it will be perfect with my next back ! to be honest, i can't understand why leaf, Hassy and Phase one don't provide shimmings options inside the back itself !

Conclusion :

if i had to buy a technical camera today, will i buy a RM3D again ?
oh yes !
That's a personal point of view, because that camera suits MY needs very well... there's plenty of Cambo wide RS owners, Alpa owners, Sinar owners that seem happy with their cameras... it's really nice to have all this choice available !

PS : sometimes, for my personal work, i just use the RM3D with the 55 and a more compact Kapture group sliding back... it fits in a small lowepro back pack, that way i'm traveling on a motorbike... what a freedom !

On assignment, i still used the Rotaslide, because the binocular angle can be adapt, it's much clearer with the 35xl...

Have a good light !

 

[cunim]

Interesting. I like my Alpa but would switch in a heartbeat if Arca had a system that would let me use lenses on both the tech camera (any of the tech cameras) and the Monolith 6x9. That is a "killer" feature for a view camera owner.

I asked Arca about this but no luck. I wonder why it is so hard to do? Make an R series camera that accepts 110mm lens boards, or a 110mm lens board that accepts R lenses. Everyone with an Arca view camera would be right there.

 

[archivue]

"I like my Alpa but would switch in a heartbeat if Arca had a system that would let me use lenses on both the tech camera (any of the tech cameras) and the Monolith 6x9"

you can use Arca R lenses on the Monolith, with that adaptor !

http://www.arca-shop.de/Fachkameras/R-Line/Zubehoer-R-Line/Objektiv-Adapterplatte-ARCA-SWISS-110x110-standart-flach-mit-Bajonett-Rm3D-RL3D::956.html?language=en

using the arca 110 to sinar adaptor + the previous one, you can also use your R lenses on a sinar, but from my point of view there's no point of doing it !

 

[jlm]

i probably would have gone with the arca (instead of the cambo) except for a few reasons:

very limited dealer and sales support
the rm only has one axis of tilt
i like the fine focus but was not sold on having to use a look up table
it is a bit larger

 

[Jack]

"I like my Alpa but would switch in a heartbeat if Arca had a system that would let me use lenses on both the tech camera (any of the tech cameras) and the Monolith 6x9"

you can use Arca R lenses on the Monolith, with that adaptor !

http://www.arca-shop.de/Fachkameras/R-Line/Zubehoer-R-Line/Objektiv-Adapterplatte-ARCA-SWISS-110x110-standart-flach-mit-Bajonett-Rm3D-RL3D::956.html?language=en

using the arca 110 to sinar adaptor + the previous one, you can also use your R lenses on a sinar, but from my point of view there's no point of doing it !

Not only that, you can mount the entire RM3D body on the rail of an M 6x9, attach the bellows where the back plate attaches, and use the RM3D as the front standard!!!

 

[David Klepacki]

i probably would have gone with the arca (instead of the cambo) except for a few reasons:

very limited dealer and sales support
the rm only has one axis of tilt
i like the fine focus but was not sold on having to use a look up table
it is a bit larger

The unresponsiveness from Arca-Swiss is a real concern in the U.S. It has been eight weeks since we ordered a Rm3di body, and it still has not arrived. What's worse is that we were told that it would only take 2 - 4 weeks when we ordered it.

Last year, we purchased a Rm3d and several lenses. It also took over two months to finally receive it. Granted there are always some delays from the lens manufacturers, but this time there is no excuse since we did not order any lenses, only the body. It sounds like Arca-Swiss is responsive to its customers in France and maybe nearby in Europe, but otherwise their support must be considered unreliable, at least in the U.S. I hate to think what would happen if our camera needed to be serviced some day, and how long before we would see the camera again, and what we would be forced to shoot with while waiting. You could end up losing some of your best clients if you are not always prepared for such a scenario.

BTW, which Cambo did you end up going with? How long did it take to receive it? Overall, how has it been working out for you in the field? Are you confident in Cambo support and responsiveness?

 

[jlm]

Capture integration was my source for the Cambo WRS and lenses. camera was shipped in two weeks, one lens is four weeks, the others took a month or two, due to slow production, not by cambo but by Schneier and Rodenstock.

i find the camera very well made and it works very well indeed, the major limitation being the H39 back quirks when not on an H body and processing in Phocus when you don't have lens or shutter data normally supplied by the H body. I bought three lenses 43,70,120, all with t/s mounts, plus the back has shift in two axes, so this offers more control than any other compact tech unit.

I have had no contact with Cambo support, but CI is a great resource

 

[archivue]

Capture Integration is a really nice source... they sell both Arca and Cambo...

http://www.captureintegration.com/2010/09/21/hands-on-the-new-arca-swiss-rm3di/

 

[Woody Campbell]

On the second point - alpa hpf rings - the hpf rings deal with the resolution of the focus scale, not the resolution of the helicoid. Alpa's statement is about right in my experience.

The RM3D is clearly the best choice if working off of a ground glass is important to you. I've found using a ground glass with a digital back frustrating because even earlier generation backs out resolved the ground glass.

I can order an obscure Alpa doodad from Jeff Hirsh at Fotocare in New York on a Thursday, Alpa ships on Monday and it's in the shop on Wednesday.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Capture integration was my source for the Cambo WRS and lenses. camera was shipped in two weeks, one lens is four weeks, the others took a month or two, due to slow production, not by cambo but by Schneier and Rodenstock.

i find the camera very well made and it works very well indeed, the major limitation being the H39 back quirks when not on an H body and processing in Phocus when you don't have lens or shutter data normally supplied by the H body. I bought three lenses 43,70,120, all with t/s mounts, plus the back has shift in two axes, so this offers more control than any other compact tech unit.

I have had no contact with Cambo support, but CI is a great resource

In the end considering price, size and functionality I will probably get the Cambo. I have shot all of them and each system has many benefits. But it really is a frame between lens and back. The Cambo does it all but the build and precision is not Arca or Alpa. Than again I'm more interested in the functionality than the build quality. I need rise and fall mostly but along with the ability to stitch at the same time. Plus you can get Tilt as a option on the glass. Costs are a main concern as well since I want maybe a 28 which is pretty expensive. I'm really after below my 55 LS lens which matched the 60 Schneider pretty well in Dougs test which I was there doing my own testing

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I should add this tech kit is to pinpoint a area of my work so it's not my primary system which is the DF and it's lenses. So maybe the most lenses I would have is 2. This is a very specific need for me and landscape work is not really one of them. The end of the day landscape work is personal not client driven.

 

[stephengilbert]

"I can order an obscure Alpa doodad from Jeff Hirsh at Fotocare in New York on a Thursday, Alpa ships on Monday and it's in the shop on Wednesday."

Same with Paul at Optechs Digital in Seattle. The problem is that he expects you to pay for the doodads. :angel:

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Now in the end the Arca has the most going for it but it's big and even though the focus system maybe one of the best. It's just not my style. I like copal shutter style shooting but this goes back to my days shooting 8x10 and 4x5 film. It's that old man syndrome familiarity I still like. But that is just me
As many love the Arca style

 

[cunim]

Thanks for the information about adapters to use Arca lenses across Monolith/tech platforms. Looks like a great system (love using the tech camera as a front) and I was all sorts of happy until I remembered why Arca told me it is not possible.

My view camera lenses are in Rollei shutters. Too big. I want a tech camera that can mount and focus lensboards. We don' need no steenkin helicals. Little joke.

The IQ series may change how I handle tethered shooting and I need to gain some experience with that before reassessing the single-platform approach. In the meantime, I am not suffering too badly and I will ask my Arca dealer to loan me an RM3D just to play with for a day.

 

[David Klepacki]

Capture Integration is a really nice source... they sell both Arca and Cambo...
[/URL]

Yes, they may be an Arca reseller, but it does not change the huge delays in actually getting the equipment from Arca-Swiss. To us, service is measured by how quickly someone can get you a piece of equipment, especially a replacement in an emergency. We are already customers of Capture Integration, who have done a superb job with their support for our Phase One equipment. However, the availability of Arca-Swiss R-cameras and lenses here is nowhere near the same level.

 

[PeterA]

Forth point : in the field of architecture photography, it happens some times that a tripod can't be used for one shot... so the Sinar Artech wasn't an option also for my use !

An excellent reason not buy an artec if I ever heard one!

happy to hear that you are comfortable with your choice of gear happy shooting.

 

[jotloob]

a friend of mine ask me why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras ? and if i will have to make this choice again, will i stick with the RM3D ?

So, i've send him an email with my answer (in french... ), then i thought i should share it with the community... with my bad english... sorry about that !

First point : i've found out that focussing on a ground glass wasn't 100% accurate with wide angle lenses and digital back... especially my 35 XL...
so, the linhof techno wasn't for me ! too bad, because you don't need to have your lenses calibrated for that camera... but you eyes gets tyred at the end of the day of shooting !

Second point : while when the RM3D came out, Alpa claims :
"There are camera manufacturers who are very proud e.g. of their homemade 1'800° helical mount (5x 360° = five full turns from the shortest focusing distance to "infinity"). Indeed: such a 1'800° helical mount (one for all lenses) is certainly very precise due to the fine thread. The practicability of "5x 360°" and of the corresponding special system where you have to "translate" meters/feet in a peculiar division system from e.g. 1 to 34 is another matter. One thing is absolutely correct: a precise helical mount is important - no doubt about this (do you remember the Chinese made "FOTOMAN" helical mounts? - a nightmare concerning their precision!). The original helical mounts made by Rodenstock and Schneider-Kreuznach for their lenses and used e.g. by ALPA, CAMBO, HORSEMAN and others are perfectly precise enough for their tasks and they have proved this with ten thousands of lenses."

i've found the opposite !
few months later they produced the HPF rings... Cambo didn't...

source :
http://www.alpa.ch/en/news/2010/some-thoughts-about-sliding-backs.html?year=&num=


Third point : i'm the type of photographer that need ground glass or waist level for composition purpose... that's personal, some prefer Range finder, others reflex... so Alpa wasn't a choice for me, they keep on saying that a sliding back is impossible to make, because it can keeps the level of tolerance on a long run... maybe they are right, but with my modest Aptus 22, i have already shoot 35 000 pics in two and a half year, and it stills ok !

Forth point : in the field of architecture photography, it happens some times that a tripod can't be used for one shot... so the sinar Artech wasn't an option also for my use !

Fifth point : i mostly shoot architecture and artworks... Arca are offering a complete system so i can share the same sliding back and all my lenses with my RM3D and a monorail F line 69 or even better M line Two

6th point : the Rm3D can be mounted on an arca rail, the rail fits directly on all the new style Arca heads, that way, you can easily rotate around the nodal point if needed !

7th point : for "real" stitching, it's much better when the lense doesn't move... that way, you just move the sensor to record all the part of a "real" image provide by the fixed lens ! The Rm3d is build that way, no need for extra stuff... you can make real stitching in horizontal or vertical ! You can stitch with the camera movements or with the rotaslide.

8th point : first i didn't like the handle, but i've bought their optional part that comes between the body and the handle... that's perfect, even in hot atmosphere !

9th point : i must confess that i don't use the view finder too much, but compare to the competitors, it is by far the best !

Ok, Ok... now what i dislike with it...

- with the rotaslide on, it's not easy to pack !

- you can't shims your digital back... but you can always offset the values on the ring... so, at the end not a big deal... mine is perfect, but i wonder, if it will be perfect with my next back ! to be honest, i can't understand why leaf, Hassy and Phase one don't provide shimmings options inside the back itself !

Conclusion :

if i had to buy a technical camera today, will i buy a RM3D again ?
oh yes !
That's a personal point of view, because that camera suits MY needs very well... there's plenty of Cambo wide RS owners, Alpa owners, Sinar owners that seem happy with their cameras... it's really nice to have all this choice available !

PS : sometimes, for my personal work, i just use the RM3D with the 55 and a more compact Kapture group sliding back... it fits in a small lowepro back pack, that way i'm traveling on a motorbike... what a freedom !

On assignment, i still used the Rotaslide, because the binocular angle can be adapt, it's much clearer with the 35xl...

Have a good light !

Are these Martin Luther's theses for digital MF photography ? ? ?

I think it is vital for this forum to prevent an excessive religious war about the pro's and con's of thechnical MF cameras with digital backs as well as we should not run into advertising for any product .
I declare the MF technical camera bazar open ! ! !
NO NO NO .
In the end it is all about the images and not about 0.002mm for focusing .
Remember .

 

[Shashin]

Apart from the practical aspect of a needed feature, for example, shifts, there are only two criteria folks use buying cameras.

1. They think it is cool.

2. They can afford it.

The technical justifications are simply used for the family CFO and gear threads.

Actually, the "precise" helicoid focus "war" I find it just a marketing tool for the camera companies mostly playing on the "fears" of gear addicts not having the "best." At least until anyone can come up with the numbers in real terms justifying them. And until this point, no one has.

 

[cmb_]

Apart from the practical aspect of a needed feature, for example, shifts, there are only two criteria folks use buying cameras.

1. They think it is cool.

2. They can afford it.

I'm not sure the second item (2. They can afford it.) comes into play!

 

[Thierry]

That's the reason why I did not want to say anything, although there would have been a lot to, since so much written against Alpa which is not true or incomplete.

Thierry

Are these Martin Luther's theses for digital MF photography ? ? ?

I think it is vital for this forum to prevent an excessive religious war about the pro's and con's of thechnical MF cameras with digital backs as well as we should not run into advertising for any product .
I declare the MF technical camera bazar open ! ! !
NO NO NO .
In the end it is all about the images and not about 0.002mm for focusing .
Remember .