is Liveview available on IQ yet?

[Stefan Steib]

There is only one way to get a nice and usable Liveview with a CCD - using a shutter as Sinar did it.
And - without stressing imagination all too much- I could imagine what Phase is looking after: MAYBE - if they use the DF bodies with the Schneider LS lenses they could trigger the shutter synced with the CCD- thus getting a perfect preview without any saturation or other issues- kind of Pixelplus+Leafshutter+ Liveview. But this would be limited ONLY to the DF.

???? If so- then this would work. Getting it up and running - is another issue.
probably it´s more difficult then they thought.

Regards
Stefan

 

[Thierry]

Sinar did implement this method for the live-video, by using the lens shutter to avoid saturation of the CCD sensor on their Hy6. But it meant also a much reduced lifetime for the shutter itself.

As a consequence of a reduced shutter lifetime this was abandonned when the Hy6 hit the market.

Thierry

Thierry Hagenauer
Alpa Consultant

[email protected]
www.alpa.ch

if they use the DF bodies with the Schneider LS lenses they could trigger the shutter synced with the CCD- thus getting a perfect preview without any saturation or other issues- kind of Pixelplus+Leafshutter+ Liveview. But this would be limited ONLY to the DF.

???? If so- then this would work. Getting it up and running - is another issue.
probably it´s more difficult then they thought.

Regards
Stefan

 

[wentbackward]

On the Fuji s5 it gave you 30s then stopped for a bit. Ive seen on c1 tethered it will shutdown temporarily on a leaf back. Having used this method, I found it workable. Happy to have live view in return for such a compromise. I recall reading that longer tethered live view is the primary reason for leaf backs having a fan and vents. Secondary being it may help noise. I can't find that article now though.

 

[Stefan Steib]

Hi Thierry

As much as I know Phase has now the rights on the Hy6 technology. So I still say maybe they have improved this with the faster leafshutters in the LS lenses, running these shutters with a comparably long time in lets say 35asa mode and 1/5 of a second twice a second, I think this could work quite well.
Lifetime span - that´s another issue, but as it´s not in the bodies but in the lenses I could imagine it´s working (unless You only use only one lens all the time). And - this could pave way to a new and improved body that I´m sure they are develloping -needing better powersupply, energy management and advanced back to body communication.
I think this Liveview thing is the tip of the "soon to be exposed iceberg".

Greetings from Munich
Stefan

 

[David K]

Hi Thierry
As much as I know Phase has now the rights on the Hy6 technology.
Stefan

Unless I slept through the news this is not my understanding.

 

[Stefan Steib]

David - maybe:

"Developments at Leaf

On 25 June 2009 PhaseOne and senior Leaf management agreed to set up a joint company, Leaf Imaging Ltd, taking over most of the Leaf assets (parent company Kodak had already for some time been looking at options to sell off Leaf). The longer term effects of this new development are as yet unknown and the new company has stated that it is further considering its options regarding the AFi. As PhaseOne already has a strategic alliance with Mamiya, the AFi would constitute an additional platform. Many users have meanwhile called upon Leaf Imaging to continue the AFi line through a petition on the web.
The new Leaf Imaging Ltd company has decided to offer its latest digital Aptus-II 12 back in an Hy6/AFi mount, available in Q1 2011."

this is from this website:
http://www.rolleiflexpages.com/Hy6.html

and that Phase owns Leaf now is well known I believe. The rights to the AFI =Hy6 were at Kodak see here:

http://www.photoscala.de/grafik/2009/Hy6-Organigramm-a.jpg

So I guess - yes - Good morning !

greetings from Munich
Stefan

 

[PeterA]

My understanding is that the Hy6/AF1/Rollie camera bodies were developed as a joint venture between Leaf/Jenoptic ( which owned Sinar) and Rollie - I can't read German but the chart you throw up indicates that Leaf was a party to the JV and now since Leaf are owned by Phase One, Phase One has an interest in the rights to the body. So you can still buy a Leaf branded camera which slightly different to a Sinar branded camera in how battery functionality works and the name on the camera.

I suspect that the rights to the body are access to manufacturing and production rights - rather than profit share in bodies made for anyone under any brand.

Phase One have probably decided that amount of Mamiya glass out there in 645 and RZ form far outnumber the amount of Rollie mount glass made by Schneider and Zeiss

hence the tie up buying or whatever of mamiya bodies and lenses - remember the Hy6/Afi was an attempt by Jenoptic/Sinar/Lef to copy the Hasselblad strategy or respond to the Hasselblad strategy and Phase One was forced into buying linking to Mamiya as a result - because they werent part of the club.

Now Scheider is happy to design a lens with a Leaf shutter for Mamiya - they have been doing it of Rollie for years

all that Phase One needs is a decent body - but of course those who are using the curent body can make do until a new one is announced.

then when the new body is announced maybe Leaf wont be able to make an Afi mount version of their back which would be a shame since Sinar appear to have lost interest in the MFD segment apart from their multi-shot backs.

Phase One commentary in here is too full of itself at times - or thats the way it comes across -I am disappointed by the marketing claims of Phase One regarding live view on camera - which was suppossed to be a game changer for tech camera users in the field.

When any of these 645 lens makers can produce something like a 23mm Rodenstock - let me know - the closest to this level of excellence is (of course from Leica) - and to use the quality glass properly you actually dont need the elephant gun sized sensors - and the now just creeping into mainstream understanding problems associated @ 'outer edges of chip" in "some" applications' - these comments are limited to use on tech cameras- I am sure for DSLR type applications they arent the same - in this case there are other lesser issues which can be fixed ala discussion above.

It would be a real shame if Leaf was ever to lose its independance and it only became a brand name on a second rate or second tier Phase One chip - a real shame.

 

[David K]

Stefan, I think what threw me off was your reference to the Hy6 which I understand to be a product that DHW has the rights to. I do understand what you mean when you say AFI=Hy6 and, since Phase has acquired Leaf, etc. etc. But I suspect there are some legal issues which preclude Phase from offering a back for the Hy6. If not, I would think they would have done so as I believe a Hy6 on a Phase back would be very much in demand. Wouldn't it be nice if that was the direction Phase was taking for their next camera body.

 

[EH21]

I believe a Hy6 on a Phase back would be very much in demand. Wouldn't it be nice if that was the direction Phase was taking for their next camera body.

+1, and one customer waiting. But as long as I'm dreaming I'll keep the revolving sensor and sensorflex from the Leaf and add it to the IQ's screen and other features.

 

[Stefan Steib]

@Peter
and you see Schneider is again involved in this. Which makes it even more plausible. I don´t think that Phase will build Hy6 bodies, but they have full access to all engineering and construction data by Leaf. And there we go.

@David
Nobody knows who actually is the "owner" of the Knowhow of the camera.
This is the reason I posted the diagram. Since it was made over 2 years have passed. The fact that Sinar and DHW are selling the bodies does not mean (in my opinion) that they have the rights to it. And further - the technology for the shutter is not made by Schneider - this is made by Prontor who have stopped to market their own products as shutters, but who are definitely the most important (and only left)player in shutter technolgy for OEM customers beside Copal.

Greetings from Munich
Stefan