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Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

gazwas

Active member
I have Seen these spots before, from my experience they come from faulty shading. I could easily remove them by adjusting the lens hood. However, I have seen this effect strongest on the 150mm Schneider.
But my dealer was baffled as they said due to the design of the Rodie, it was less prone to flare then my Schneider and that didn't display any of these issues. I shot various images within a 180 degree radius to move the position of the sun (behind the clouds) and that didn't make any difference.

Seems an odd lens design if it can''t shoot outdoors on overcast days without extreme lens shading.

Anyway, just thought it was worth mentioning....
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Re my spot. I am 100% certain my spot above was due to the goo spot on the front of my lens. I am also 100% certain that if shooting towards bright light with darker foreground, you can get a flare that would be similar, but not necessarily always in the exact same dead-center spot. For sure, any lens with generous IC's -- so this includes basically all tech lenses -- need to be shaded with a good hood or flag to prevent this type of flare.

FWIW, I ordered the Arca dedicated bellows shade yesterday precisely for this reason. I prefer the Arca type of arrangement, an adjustable length shade that mounts to the body and surrounds the lens. Shades that surround the lens instead of mounting to it are easier to use with filters, and filters on tech lenses are significantly more prone to flare due to their flat surface, so make the use of shades even more critical...
 

gazwas

Active member
I am also 100% certain that if shooting towards bright light with darker foreground, you can get a flare that would be similar, but not necessarily always in the exact same dead-center spot.
Mmmm, interesting observation but on the 40HR I purchase it was always exactly there, dead centre on the lens?

Oh well, at least it proved for my use the 43XL was a better lens and saved quite a chunk on money in the process...... win, win.
 

LonnaTucker

Member
Sorry to hear you had a "goo" spot go unnoticed Jack. Damn shame when you've gone so far to photograph. Hopefully you can work out a curve in photoshop to brush these out on an adjustment layer.

I wanted to comment on tilt with tech cameras. Thankfully, focus stacking is no longer necessary with the use of tilt, except in situations where you may have a strong vertical object nearby or a drop out in the plane of focus when tilted.

I've used an Alpa Max since 2008, but have switched over to Arca-Swiss this summer. What a joy to use tilt with wide lenses (or any lens for that matter) I didn't realize how much I had missed this control since my view camera days.
Plus, the use of tilt isn't as fussy as with ground glass focusing. Focus as you would for hyperfocal distance and tilt a small degree or two to bring your near subjects into focus. Couldn't be easier. Love it!
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Sorry to hear you had a "goo" spot go unnoticed Jack. Damn shame when you've gone so far to photograph.
As Forrest's mom sad, "Stupid is as stupid does." And I was damn stupid -- it was a rookie mistake.

Hopefully you can work out a curve in photoshop to brush these out on an adjustment layer.
Fortunately in this particular image, it does look like rain with no relevant detail in that area, so not really a huge setback.

I wanted to comment on tilt with tech cameras. Thankfully, focus stacking is no longer necessary with the use of tilt, except in situations where you may have a strong vertical object nearby or a drop out in the plane of focus when tilted.

I've used an Alpa Max since 2008, but have switched over to Arca-Swiss this summer. What a joy to use tilt with wide lenses (or any lens for that matter) I didn't realize how much I had missed this control since my view camera days.

Plus, the use of tilt isn't as fussy as with ground glass focusing. Focus as you would for hyperfocal distance and tilt a small degree or two to bring your near subjects into focus. Couldn't be easier. Love it!
Amen, could not agree more. Doing the "Zen" approach to tilt works supremely well for landscape. Of course having had extensive experience with tilts in LF days certainly helps! (It was amazing how many images regardless of lens, I just left my F Metric set to the 3 degree tilt indent; it may be the same for the 1 degree mark on my RM3D!)

PS: As a result of this last trip, the 23 is now on my short list :D
 

Wayne Fox

Workshop Member
. First off, the light was changing fast and so I had to move very quickly to get this before the rainbow disappeared -- so it is not framed ideally, and in fact this a crop from the full IQ180 frame to get the old ruin and the bow out of the dead center.
sort of my frustration with tech cameras so far. Whenever I take it I seem to miss a shot or two.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
sort of my frustration with tech cameras so far. Whenever I take it I seem to miss a shot or two.
It was the same for me when I transitioned from film MF to LF cameras. The process is slower and requires process methodology to achieve successful results. And the process methodology takes time. Time and process is why I continue to carry and use both the tech camera and the DF camera kits...

I know several shooters here have gone 100% tech for their MF kit, while others avoid tech altogether because of the speed limitations. Clearly tech is not a good choice for somebody who has a short attention span or likes to do grab-and-go shooting. But for those willing to expend the time and effort to use it, it will pay dividends in the form of a more technically perfect image -- the cost is you'll have fewer unique compositions at the end of the day.

For me, it's a "what mood am in" sort of thing. I do like the deliberate, thoughtful approach tech brings to the field, and I find an inner peace in working that way. However, when time is short -- like when I'm traveling with the family -- the DF is clearly the better option. If I could only have one, it would be the DF, but I count myself fortunate I now have both options at my disposal ;)
 

jotloob

Subscriber Member
Jack, this is so weird you posting about the same problem I had with a 40HR-W I purchased to possibly replace my 43XL. I assumed as the 40HR-W was such a widely used lens and this issue had never been reported before I had purchased a dud copy of the lens and didn't bother mentioning it on here.

A quick example of the flare spot on my 40HR-W can be seen below. It was always in the centre of the lens in contrasty lighting and was plain as day when the spot was over dark foliage. Interior shots with soft lighting I could not detect the spot, but this was not to say it wasn't there. I say this because I use an Arca ML2 and focus on the ground glass with a loupe and for the life of me I couldn't get a good focus by eye with this lens. My interest in the 40HR was the f4 aperture for brighter focusing on the GG but what looked ok on the GG in the centre was quite a margin out when viewed on the laptop, surprisingly the f5.6 43XL was always there or very nearly. It was as if there was no contrast to focus the lens properly.

I could shoot in the same lighting conditions (white sky's, dark foreground) and replicate this issue every single time over a period of 4 days testing. Move my P65+ around the image circle and the spot would stay on the same tree in the centre of the lens but shifted up, down, left, right etc around the frame. It wasn't a camera problem as I did the same shots on the 43XL after each other and they did not display any of the same problems.

I ended up getting a refund on the lens because of this problem and stuck with the very excellent and predictable 43XL. I've considered testing the lens again to see if the problems are on a different manufacturing batch but there was so little difference between the two for light fall off and sharpness I think the 43XL is the better choice for me.

I would seriously consider thoroughly testing your lens again as it might be something more than dirt. My copy was brand new out of the box and the first capture I noticed it and no amount of cleaning and blowing changed anything.
I am pretty sure that Garreth and Jack are not the only owners of a
HR-DIGARON-W 40mm WA lens .
I am about to buy this lens , but Garreth's report confuses me a lot and I would like to know , if other users experience the same or a similar issue , but did not mention it here in the forum .
I would be pleased to hear your experiences .
 

cs750

Member
Jürgen, I am no expert on flare with the Rodie 40mm, but I received my Rodie 40mm two days ago and shot many images on a sunny day in a small steam with overhanging branches and leaves. On both days I had around a dozen images with flare near the center of the image. I did not do a careful inspection of whether the flare was always located over dark foliage. While 50 or so images were made on each day, only around a dozen each day had the very pronounced flare. On several shots I carefully examined the lens by moving my hand around the top to determine whether there was some sun striking the lens that I had not noticed...AND THERE WAS; when I held my hand so as to block the glare hitting the lens...those images turned out fine. I believe the flare was related to these outdoor lighting conditions. I KNOW there was no "goo" or anything else on the glass. I don't have an answer except my experience was that in these two lighting situations the lens did flare in a significant number of instances. I think I will follow Jack's lead and order the Arca dedicated bellows shade. Charles
 

jotloob

Subscriber Member
Thank you cs750 and Christopher

I have the ARCA shade and used it with my ARCA 6x9 F-LINE METRIC + ORBIX .
But I do not know how to attach that shade to the ALPA .
Is there any device to attach that shade to an ALPA , which I do not know of ?
I also have a LEE shade which I could attach by obtaining the correct adapter ring , but I think , the LEE shade is not as good as the ARCA shade
when you work with shifts .

Any attachment ideas ?
 

Christopher

Active member
Oh sorry I forgot that you were using it on an Alpa. As far as I know there is now way to attach it. You would need something that attaches to the lens. Arca has no own shading system. ( just some lens shades ) you could have a look at the Sinar arctec shading system, it works quit well and is attached to the lens. I perhaps have one for sale if you are interested. (nearly new just used 1-2 times)
 

jotloob

Subscriber Member
Christopher

Thanks again . I think we have been at this point of shading discusion at an earlier thread , some time ago .
As I think the ARCA shade is a good solution , I really never thought of , I will try to make my own adapter . I believe , it is possible and I can do it .
 

Christopher

Active member
You can use any shade that attaches to the lens. However, I think the best way is to use Arcas own shading bellow. It works great. You can get it in three sizes. I think the middle which should be 4x5 is the best way to go.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Yes, I succumbed and just ordered the Arca bellows shade -- very well-designed and well-built, but pricey for sure. Big advantage is it's easy to use in conjunction with filters, and of course has a built-in square filter holder.
 

jotloob

Subscriber Member
Jack

Can you pleae give a reference to that shade .
I have big trouble finding the correct ARCA items .
Thanks .
 

lenslover

New member
Jack, this is a little off-topic. In an earlier post, you said that you would probably go with the Cambo WRS, but you seem to have gone with the Arca. Did one thing change your mind? Or was it an accumulation of small things?
From this post, I see that you owned an Arca in the LF days.
Thanks, your posts always have a strong element of common sense to them.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
He is just a gear slut trust me. LOL

I know Jack will answer this but the Arca is very precise on tilt compared to the WRS. The WRS is a great tech cam and smaller than the Arca and I am looking at getting one but the Arca is just a notch better on movements and Jack likes the focusing setup on the Arca . I like the Cambo , Alpa focusing. Matter of preference. They both are extremely good and just flat out work well.
 
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