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Considering the H3DII-31

BJNY

Member
Very well balanced commentary - the type of input potential new users appreciate. Looking fwd to reading further.
Refreshing, please keep it coming, Anders.
I, too, will be making my decision(s) after Photokina.
Billy
 

woodyspedden

New member
fotografz, good point about the chargers.
woodyspedden, I will try the DNG route, that could be the way forward, but Aperture is strictly MAC not PC.

Anders
True about Aperture but until Phocus PC is released, you can use the (free) Flexcolor to do the same thing. Only thing you will be missing is the DAC corrections. Into Flexcolor as 3FR files and directly out as DNG. Now you can use CS3 or Lightroom 2 etc.

Woody
 
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andershald

Guest
Hi Billy.

I share you opinion that HB should open their raw standard to other software producers.

I emailed my suggestion of a HC65 to Hasselblad, through the website (specifying products). I got a prompt reply from them, that they were not planning a 65'er. WHen I later spoke to the rep about it, I suggested that with the number of Backs sold worldwide, particularly the 31 back, there might be a lot of users who would like to see a fast 65'er. The rep said that writing to Hasselblad was a good way to get them to listen, and they do, if enough people ask for it there is a good chance that they might make on. I was talking about numbers, I said if 500 people claimed a need for one that might be enough. The rep said that maybe 100 would be enough.

So for that reason I would like to suggest a HC65 campaign! If you are a Hassselblad H system owner and feel there is a need for a fast 65'er, why not got to Haselblad's website and write them a brief email about it? You never know...

Best regards Anders
 

BJNY

Member
A couple of positives worth mentioning:
-the H3D's HVD90x prism (for 36x48 format) has higher magnification and no distortion compared to the original HV90x.
-the ISO 800 performance is very good as demonstrated by PPR's Steve Hendrix, perhaps good enough to put off spending $10K+ on a small Nikon or Canon kit

What I'd like is for Hasselblad to standardize on the DNG file format.
Also on my wish list is:
- a fast 60-70mm normal lens for the 33x44 sensor size
- a TTL ringlight
- fotografz's focal plane H body with a modern shutter that sync's at 1/200th and goes to a 1/6000th top shutter speed...this could make it game over for me.
 

lance_schad

Workshop Member
The more I read Anders' posts the more I admire his relationship, as you say Marc, with his dealer.

Another commercial pro and Contax 645 user of some renown that you may wish to ping is James Russell over at Luminous Landscape if you decide to explore that option further.
We know that it is difficult for people to try these camera systems out in their own workflows since the dealer networks for medium format digital systems are spread out across the US.

At Capture Integration if we are not able to personally demonstrate the system to you at one of our locations either in Atlanta or Miami , we do offer options to get a system in your hands. All it takes is a phone call. There are demo/rental options. With our rental option, we apply a portion of the rentals you have paid in towards the purchase price. All we need is a certificate of insurance to cover the cost of the equipment.

Once we get the system in your hands we have a variety of ways to get you up to speed, either via the phone or remote access for your orientation.

It has worked out well for many forum members and others.

Also going on a GetDPI workshop like the Puerto Rico trip and the upcoming lighting seminar are a great way for hands on demos as well.

Call me and I can go over all the options.

L
Lance Schad
Capture Integration - Miami/Atlanta
Direct: 305-534-5701 x1 | Cell: 305-394-3196
Capture Integration
[email protected]
 

mark1958

Member
I use my canon ringlight with my hassy... Only must use in Manual mode.

A couple of positives worth mentioning:
-the H3D's HVD90x prism (for 36x48 format) has higher magnification and no distortion compared to the original HV90x.
-the ISO 800 performance is very good as demonstrated by PPR's Steve Hendrix, perhaps good enough to put off spending $10K+ on a small Nikon or Canon kit

What I'd like is for Hasselblad to standardize on the DNG file format.
Also on my wish list is:
- a fast 60-70mm normal lens for the 33x44 sensor size
- a TTL ringlight
- fotografz's focal plane H body with a modern shutter that sync's at 1/200th and goes to a 1/6000th top shutter speed...this could make it game over for me.
 
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andershald

Guest
Tomorrow is Leaf/Contax day. The dealer in Copenhagen didn't want to leave me alone with the kit...in case I have questions (!) so I am testing at the dealers space. He did offer to come along with me on a shoot and demo, but I don't feel comfortable with that. Not only would I not do an actual shoot with a new camera, nor would I do one with a camera dealer present.

Anyway, he has both an A65s and an A75s to try on the Contax system. So in 24 hours I will post my impressions here.

Any input as to what I should look out for in particular, good or bad?

Best regards,
Anders
 
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andershald

Guest
Hi Everyone.

Oh agony!

My decision has not become any easier by testing the Leaf A65s and 75s on the Contax 645AF.

First of all thanks Yair for giving Kenneth (Leaf rep in Copenhagen) a heads up to this blog, I think he was well informed on my specific needs and tailored the demo to my needs very well. He also knew what he is up against and I he suggested that he was the 'underdog', but I promised him that I had not ruled any system out, so was willing to try everything before making a decision. He was also able to actually lend me the Contax camera with an A75s back to take out and test (the A65s was not his, so could only demo at the store, which is fine).

These impressions are my initial impressions from handling the camera and back for a few hours, but not an indepth analysis, merely some thoughts on the cameras suitability to my specific needs!

Let me start back to front. The Leaf back took quite a while to go through, there are lots of settings possible, from colour profile to prenaming and pre adding of captions in the meta data of the file. Very cool and I don't remember half of it. Obviously a very sophisticated tool, I guess that these options can be used or not, as every preselection can be redone in post. The big screen and the stylus worked fine, I have no opinion on whether it is better or worse than the interface of the other backs, I think it is a matter of getting used to one or the other. I can see the usefulness of naming files in camera, though. Lots of clever features, I won't go into all of them, but one I thought was nice was the ability to get an overlay frame to match all the major 'formats', papersizes etc, but not the ability to define your own, if you are shooting to a layout.

The LeafColour software runs very slow on my 2bg ram pc, and has also crashed twice in the first hour. It seems to contain all the necessary adjustment tools and I managed to process a bunch of files. The files are fabulous! I am not a pixelpeeper nor a digital tech guru, but I have printed all my own color negs for 12 years before going digital, and these files look beautiful! Quite neutral in colour and with a very nice tonality. I haven't seen any moire. The files I shot at 400 ISO look cleaner than the competition, less noisy, but with an obvious crispness. I would not hesitate to use 400 ISO in a tight spot.

As I said previously, I think any of the major back makers produce fine tools that will all produce a good result. I haven't done any in depth analysis of the files from Phase, Hasselblad or Leaf, they all look nice, but so far I think the leaf files were the ones that impressed me the most straight out of 'the box'.

The Leaf backs seem to have their own 'sizing' system, the A75s is 33mp and the A65s is 28mp. The rep suggested that the 'match for the Hasselblad 31mp back is the Leaf 28mp back. I don't think that it is a quite even match. I'd rather have 31 than 28mp, in fact I'd much rather have 33 mp! Although the rep has suggested some willingness to approach the Hasselblad price, but not match it, they are still more expensive backs.

Now, the Contax... wow. It's a real camera, a proper camera and the lenses feel like Hasselblad V lenses with optional autofocus! The camera has all the manual feel of a 'proper' medium format camera. It feels like a proper medium format camera should feel. The autofocus is slowish, has a tendency to hunt, I can't say if it is more or less than the Mamiya/Phaseone camera but definately more than the Hasselblad. On the other hand, I ended up doing lots of shots with manual focus, and from what I can see, reasonably succesfully. The AF is too slow for anything moving around, for anything that is fairly still it feels more intuitive to manual focus...and quicker. But with the Zeiss lenses that feels great! I don't know if I can live without the faster AF or I would just use my Canon for those shots. The handgrip is too small for my paws, so holding the camera strains the wrist. Ergonomics on the Contax are not as good as the Hasselblad, it is also a much older system. The body does not take rechargable batteries, it does appearantly (I haven't run out of body battery yet) use a lot of these fairly expensive disposable batteries.

For the Hasselblad I loved the 50 and the 100 mm lenses, they represent the two of lenses I use today the 35mm and the 85mm, there is no good match for the 50mm as the 80 is too tight. In the Contax system (please correct me if I am wrong) there is a 35, 45, 55, 80 120 (MF) and 140, around the area that I would need covered. So that would be the 55, 80 and 120? All a bit longer than I'd like. Unless I went with the A75s which would get me closer to where I'd like to be. Sorry if this makes no sense, feel free to make suggestions for a good lens line up to match the 35/50/85.

In principle I am against the idea of investing so much in a camera system that is dead. The rep had two Contax bodies today, the one body was defect and the 140mm lens had a lose screw so the shade was rotating...inspite of this he was adament that Contax cameras were very sturdy and almost never broke. I am sure that is the case and that he was really unlucky today, but hey, it's a lot of money and a proffesional tool, I don't need no headache about equipment playing up due to old age. But the good body that he lent me, wow, what a lovely piece of kit...and the 80mm shot at f2.0 really soft but in a great way. Wow!

So this combination has some good things going for it: Great files, fabulous camera with fast (aperture) lenses and great manual focus feel.

And some things against it: Price, obsolete camera system, disposable batteries in the grip, slow AF.

Something inside me tells me that, if I went with the Hasselblad, which I may do as it is the more affordable solution, something inside of me will always dream of that Contax. But I am still not sure if I have the guts to go with the obsolete system.

Any input from current Contax users on repair times, availability of lenses etc? Perhaps input from Contax/Leaf users? Are there any?

Best regards,
Anders
 
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andershald

Guest
Oh, just remembered on emore thing.

Very gentle mirrorslap on the Contax. Someone wrote about that here, and it is really true. Remarkably less vibration and that means the camera can be handheld at slower speeds.

Anders
 

yaya

Active member
Great report Anders and I'm glad I was able to help!

Maybe getting an S back on a used H2 is the way to go. The H2 is still supported and gives you the ergonomics (personally not my favourite) and the faster sync speed compared to the Contax (1/125 on a good day going downhill with a tail wind). We (CAV) may be able to help in sourcing an H2 for you.

IMO the 28MP Dalsa gives sharper results compared to the 31MP and the speed gain if you shoot people is a big advantage.

Sorry if I'm stirring the pot even more than you originally planned:)

Yair
 
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andershald

Guest
Hi Yair.

Stirring at this point is a good thing. I think it is very easy to make the purchase 'in your mind' before acutally trying the different options out. I have been looking at the files some more and I think another factor at play are the very lovely Zeiss lenses. I have shot some wonderful images at f2.0- f2.8 today, manual focus, handheld and they are in focus. So I have been looking at the amount of second hand Contax gear around and the offerings sort of change the 'buying' strategies a little bit. I would need to put more effort into sourcing equipment. The lenses available in the Contax system speaks in favor of the A75s. The speed is fast enough I think. One of the things that brought me to consider a MFDB in the first place was the 'resistance' from the camera, in the sense that my shooting style tends to get a little 'loose' with the Canon and that is not necessarily a good thing :)

Anders
 
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andershald

Guest
Oh and there is a battery grip for the Contax that might help the ergonomics a bit...

Anders
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Anders, you can specify a Leaf Aptus back for any of the three cameras ... Hasselblad H1/H2, Contax 645 or a Mamiya 645AFD. Same for the Phase One backs.

Prior to my H3D-II/31 & H3D-II/39, I used a Contax 645 with a Kodak ProBack, and later also used a Mamiya 645AFD-II with a Leaf Aptus 75s.

A few points of interest you may have not had an opportunity to discover:

The Leaf Aptus files are beautiful, and I can say that the resolution differences between 28 meg and 31 meg are virtually undetectable.

The large screen of the Aptus backs is very difficult to see outdoors ... a consideration since the settings are done on a touch screen rather than analog buttons. IMO, one of the most intuitive and swift setting ergonomics are those of Phase backs.

The Aptus backs require a clip on battery off the base that can be irritating, the Phase One battery is seamlessly integrated into the back, and the H3D camera and back are powered by the single grip battery.

On the H3D camera, you can select a menu item that allows you to set a mirror delay of various milliseconds that allows longer hand-held shutter speeds.

I loved the Contax 645, but could not stand the AF one more minute after experiencing the H camera's AF. Hasselblad makes a fully automatic aperture CF adapter that allows use of all the manual focusing Zeiss CFi & CFE leaf shutter lenses: 30mm, 40mm, 50mm, 65mm, 80mm, 100mm, 120mm, 150mm, 180mm, 350mm, 500mm. This is not the same as "dumb" adapters for using Zeiss lenses on a contax or Mamiya that require stopped down metering and shooting.

The Contax 55/3.5 is one of the best in that focal range I've ever used. Same for the manual focus 120 Macro.

There are rechargable 2CR5 batteries that I am fairly sure can be used in the Contax 645 Grip. The ones I have are 600 mAh.
 

David K

Workshop Member
Anders, FWIW, I shot with the Contax 645 and Aptus 75S for many years and was extremely happy with the files. Despite it's limitations I love that camera and, being a lens guy, felt I was using some of the best optics ever made... especially considering the ability to shoot some of the great Hassy glass via the MAM-1 adapter, i.e. Hassy 110 2.0 FE. I've now moved on to the Sinar Hy6 and the marvelous Rollei lenses but have still kept my Contax 645 kit which is useable via adapter on the Sinar e75LV back. There are more than a few Contax 645 fans around here. Sorry I can't help you with repair times since mine has never gone down :) Also, the battery grip is a must if you do decide to go with the Contax and I use rechargeables in the grip all the time.
 
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andershald

Guest
Hi fotografz, David K and hobbsr.

Thank you very much for your valuable input and offer of advice, it is much appreciated. The Leaf dealer in Copenhagen has very kindly offered that I can hang on to the A75s and Contax kit for a few days. He has also told me that Yair (thanks again Yair) has shipped some more Contax equipment to Copenhagen, in particular the bits that I was interested in, the 55, 80, and the battery grip. The dealer is still looking for a 120mm. I must say I am very impressed with the level of service I am getting from the various dealers and back makers. All this equipment is underway to Copenhagen just so that I can try it out.

The more I handle the Contax the more I enjoy the handling of the camera. I think I would end up using it primarily as a manual focus camera. Which I think I could get used to.

fotografs, how do you find the Hasselblad files vs the Leaf files. The Leaf files are a little bit smaller than the HB counterparts and the Leaf backs are a bit more expensive, you probably have a lot more experience with these files than I have from my limited amount of testing. I would be happy about any input if any users have comments about this.

Best regards,
Anders
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Hi fotografz, David K and hobbsr.

Thank you very much for your valuable input and offer of advice, it is much appreciated. The Leaf dealer in Copenhagen has very kindly offered that I can hang on to the A75s and Contax kit for a few days. He has also told me that Yair (thanks again Yair) has shipped some more Contax equipment to Copenhagen, in particular the bits that I was interested in, the 55, 80, and the battery grip. The dealer is still looking for a 120mm. I must say I am very impressed with the level of service I am getting from the various dealers and back makers. All this equipment is underway to Copenhagen just so that I can try it out.

The more I handle the Contax the more I enjoy the handling of the camera. I think I would end up using it primarily as a manual focus camera. Which I think I could get used to.

fotografs, how do you find the Hasselblad files vs the Leaf files. The Leaf files are a little bit smaller than the HB counterparts and the Leaf backs are a bit more expensive, you probably have a lot more experience with these files than I have from my limited amount of testing. I would be happy about any input if any users have comments about this.

Best regards,
Anders
Anders, IMHO they are all the same. Lots of makers try to make out that they aren't ... but in my experience the files are so similar it's literally splitting hairs. I not only deal with my own photographs, but also as an Art Director work with those from many other photographers using all of the different backs.

Some DBs have different feature sets ... like the Phase One + models offer longer exposures for those who need it. But honestly, once you learn the propritary software, and the characeristics of the files ... you can achive anything you want with any one of them ... they are all great, and absolutely kill any 35mm DSLR.

So for me, it came down to replacing my Canon 1DsMKII with a MFD camera that could come close to it in speed and ease of use for shooting weddings and fast paced people work, (especially in challenging light) ... while giving me the flash control and high sync speeds I needed. For me, that was the H3D-II/31. I also have the entire collection of the Zeiss Leaf Shutter lenses that I use on that same camera.

But again, that's me ... and other folks have different criteria.

IMO, if you decide on a Contax 645 as the camera you prefer ... I think the Phase One is the ticket. My close friend Irakly Shanidze uses that combo, and the back seems custom made for that camera. He loves it for the people work he does. But like I once did, he has shot Contax 645 for many, many years and knows the strengths and drawbacks of the system.

http://www.shanidze.com/en/index.php
 
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andershald

Guest
fotografz,

Again good input. I think it might be worth having another look at the Phase One backs again, now that I feel very attracted to the Contax.

A MFDB for me is a supplement to the 1DS2, so I would still use the Canon for the fast action work.

I just checked the Hasselblad/Phase dealers website and the Phase prices have just been given a good whack in the right direction (i.e. down) also the dealer is selling a lot of demo backs, so that could be an indication that there could be more back news at Photokina, but that is just me guessing.

Anders
 
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