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Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

rupho

New member
Bob
I highly recommend giving it a try to handhold your Alpa.
I agonized over that same question this summer when I decided to go on a sailing trip in the Aegean Sea followed by a trip to Istanbul.
I kept my kit very simple: STC with a Phase back, 43mm XL, viewfinder, neckstrap and a really small bag that I could stow away into a nap-sack I was carrying. This whole kit always stayed together except for times of air travel when I took the viewfinder and sync cable off.
Attached a some shots I took with the STC in various situations:
all my shots had to some extend rise applied so I shot an LCC right after.
The photo with the absurd diving board in the middle of the sea was even taken in 35ASA with around 15 mm or rise applied. I did not apply any Keystone to it just for the sake of showing how relatively accurate the bubble in the viewfinder has helped with framing the shots.
(same goes for the pool shot).
The shot with the boat and the supermarket was very late in the afternoon and shot in S+ mode at 140ISA at a 1/60 sec .
The store interior was shot at 100ISO and 4 sec.. I simply put the camera on a table and supported the back from underneath to add stability. The "odd" look of that set up got the owner fascinated and did not object to me taking the photo.
The photo taken in the mosque had one sec exposure and again supported got supported by some stone slap, tripods were not allowed in and though its not technically handheld they are nevertheless not taken with a tripod.
Again all images were taken with an LCC and had rise applied.

If you are using a smaller TC and dont want to carry a large tripod but not miss out on twilight and other darker environments bring along a gorillapod and release shutter plus a little piece that you could slide under your digital back so its on par with the TC so your able to place it on a flat surface for longer exposure times if you dont want to bring a tripod.
Have fun
Grischa




I'm wondering what people think or have experienced doing hand held shooting with a technical camera (I use Alpa) and MFDB (I have a Phase back). Is it practical in any way and does it make sense over a 35mm DSLR?

The way I figure the workflow would be is:
1. Set a high ISO
2. If people shot, guestimate the distance and use hyperfocal. Try to go as low as f8
3. Forget about LCC correction unless you want to use a standard LCC; perhaps one created at that location before you start to shoot or if you have time afterwards.
4. Loosing 2 stops with a center filter is tough!
5. Walking around with it around my neck would be a world of worry.

But I still think that the ability to use MF would be great. I know this is best done with a MF SLR type camera, but I don't have that choice.

Thanks for any and all input,
Bob
 

rga

Member
Thanks Grisha. Your images are lovely!

I will give it a try this weekend and post some images.
I'll be watching sharpness particularly. Hand held my general rule is that the shutter speed should be 3x the focal length. So with my 35 I'm looking at 1/125. I might be shooting at 100 or 200 ISO, depending on light obviously.

Thanks again for the encouragement.
Best,
Bob
 

cmb_

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Alpa 12 SWA, 47XL, P20+, Handheld. Using the Alpa viewfinder the framing is not precise but you do have a good view of the level through the viewfinder which helps when you want to keep the horizon fairly level. The SWA is very well balanced for handholding (with two hands). The TC is more compact but for me the SWA feels better. Guessing exposure is not so difficult but sometimes guessing distance I can be way off.





 

goesbang

Member
I am an industrial photographer and have shot handheld with tech cams for many years, initially with a P25 on a Horseman Sw-D, later with the same back on an SW-DII, and these days with P45+, P65+, Aptus12 or IQ180 on an ALPA STC.
The Alpa STC has been a godsend for handheld work. It is light, uncomplicated, very robust and fast to work with. My small hands sometimes struggle to reach the shutter release on the lens, but the Alpa Sync release puts the shutter release in a better position for my hands. I often also use a short cable release and trigger with either my left or right thumb. I find I get less camera shake when working at slower shutter speeds (I often handhold as low as 1/15th sec).
You should have no reservations about having the camera around your neck. My Alpa has been snow trudging in the Alps, clambering on scaffolding on highrise towers 85 floors up in Dubai (in 50deg C heat) and just last week, on an oil pipeline project in Southern Iraq (hot, dusty and swampy area South of Basra), whilst hanging from my shoulder. The camera is very robust.
For the sake of the comparison, I did the Iraq shoot with both the Phase One DF camera with 28mm Phase lens and the Alpa with the SK35XL, shooting mostly handheld. I found the DF and 28m almost unbearably cumbersome and had a tendency to swing around a lot when clambering over machinery. The Alpa tends to stay against my body better in these situations rather than swinging around and baging against things. The other striking thing was that I had a much higher number of usable frames from the Alpa than the DF. Even allowing for the fact the SK35XL is optically better than the Phase 28 in every way, there were a lot of shots scrapped from the DF due to camera shake. My guess is that the weight of the DF being harder to hold, combined with mirror-slap was disturbing stability. The Alpa being lighter and not having a mirror was superior by a large margin for handheld work of this kind. (I was shooting mostly around 1/30th at f8 with both cameras).
I always shoot LCC frames. It's pretty easy to pop one frame at the shift setting and aperture you've just shot a string of images at. I carry my LCC filter in a thigh pocket on its own so it doesn't get damaged by abrading against other stuff. My current filter has had 4 years of heavy use without damage. It is obviously important that your LCC filter remains unblemished.
Since I've started shooting with the IQ180, I hardly ever use my viewfinder. I sight over the top of the camera and confirm with the awesome screen. I only use liveview when working off a tripod at less than hyperfocal distances, and occasionally when I want to shoot wide open and have DOF issues. This combo of the IQ series backs and the light, robust TC or STC really is the killer kit for wideangle handholding in MF. The ergonomics of these two little Alpa's really make them ideal for fast, stable and comfortable handheld shooting.

Cheers,
 

rga

Member
I am an industrial photographer and have shot handheld with tech cams for many years, initially with a P25 on a Horseman Sw-D, later with the same back on an SW-DII, and these days with P45+, P65+, Aptus12 or IQ180 on an ALPA STC.
Hi Siebel,
Thanks for the input!
So are you finding that most of your in focus images are in your hyperfocal range (with my 35 it's about 1.6m - at least the beginning of infinity) and that when you try to shoot closer, it's a much larger miss ration?

Though that may seem obvious (or at least it is to me) I just wanted to confirm with your experience.
Thanks and thanks for the great input,
Bob
 

Woody Campbell

Workshop Member
Bob
I highly recommend giving it a try to handhold your Alpa.
I agonized over that same question this summer when I decided to go on a sailing trip in the Aegean Sea followed by a trip to Istanbul.
I kept my kit very simple: STC with a Phase back, 43mm XL, viewfinder, neckstrap and a really small bag that I could stow away into a nap-sack I was carrying. This whole kit always stayed together except for times of air travel when I took the viewfinder and sync cable off.
Attached a some shots I took with the STC in various situations:
all my shots had to some extend rise applied so I shot an LCC right after.
The photo with the absurd diving board in the middle of the sea was even taken in 35ASA with around 15 mm or rise applied. I did not apply any Keystone to it just for the sake of showing how relatively accurate the bubble in the viewfinder has helped with framing the shots.
(same goes for the pool shot).
The shot with the boat and the supermarket was very late in the afternoon and shot in S+ mode at 140ISA at a 1/60 sec .
The store interior was shot at 100ISO and 4 sec.. I simply put the camera on a table and supported the back from underneath to add stability. The "odd" look of that set up got the owner fascinated and did not object to me taking the photo.
The photo taken in the mosque had one sec exposure and again supported got supported by some stone slap, tripods were not allowed in and though its not technically handheld they are nevertheless not taken with a tripod.
Again all images were taken with an LCC and had rise applied.

If you are using a smaller TC and dont want to carry a large tripod but not miss out on twilight and other darker environments bring along a gorillapod and release shutter plus a little piece that you could slide under your digital back so its on par with the TC so your able to place it on a flat surface for longer exposure times if you dont want to bring a tripod.
Have fun
Grischa

Handheld with rise. Wow. A new frontier. Very interesting and beautiful images. Could you reverse the side that the rise control is on by reversing the camera body back to front? (This might help with the "long finger" problem.)
 

goesbang

Member
Hi Siebel,
Thanks for the input!
So are you finding that most of your in focus images are in your hyperfocal range (with my 35 it's about 1.6m - at least the beginning of infinity) and that when you try to shoot closer, it's a much larger miss ration?

Though that may seem obvious (or at least it is to me) I just wanted to confirm with your experience.
Thanks and thanks for the great input,
Bob
Yes, in practice most of my professional work is in the hyperfocal range as I am usually shooting buildings and industrial installations. I still check focus, usually by shooting one frame with the lens wide open, then using the zoom function to zoom to about 200% to check. This workflow with the IQ takes all the guesswork out and really helps. I don't know how I worked without it before. Between the liveview, focus mask and zoom functions on the IQ back and the HPF rins on the Alpa lenses, I haven't missed focus on a single shot since I've been working with the IQ on the Alpa.

Cheers,
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
I'm allowing myself to experiment and take more hand held shots with my WRS since getting the P65 with the main reason not needing the 2-shot release.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
What many people do not realize is there is no mirror bouncing around here causing vibrations so shooting handheld with these shutters is like shooting a Leica M8 or M9 and you can handhold them for a good half second. Really not much difference here just need to get these comfortable in your hands and these grips help a lot in that quest. I plan on doing this with my cambo no doubt about it
 

rga

Member
. I don't know how I worked without it before. Between the liveview, focus mask and zoom functions on the IQ back and the HPF rins on the Alpa lenses, I haven't missed focus on a single shot since I've been working with the IQ on the Alpa.

Cheers,
You're killing me! Time to sell the kids...
 

rga

Member
I'm allowing myself to experiment and take more hand held shots with my WRS since getting the P65 with the main reason not needing the 2-shot release.
I think the Kapture Group cable allows that for backs requiring wake up. At least that is what I will be testing...
Thanks. Love the image! Hope to get there some day.
Bob
 

rupho

New member
Thanks Woody
Unfortunately the STC in it's intended position is optimized for Stiching but turning the camera by 90 degrees you end up with the handle that's normally on the right hand side of the STC as seen from behind at the bottom.
Al you néed to do is to have the viewfinder remounted and turn the lens which is no issue on Alpas due to the square helical
So you stitch camera turns into a rise camera, though fall is blocked by the viewfinder.
Does that make sense?
In any case the bubble leveler is easily seen from the view finder and only minor keystone adjustments are needed for perfectly straight shots if you wish to do so.
Works like a charm.
And pressing the shutter is easy with the little screw in shutter release knob that come with the lenses
I use my left hand to stabilize the camera from the bottom using my Max handgrip use the indent on the STCs right as seen from behind to add support which brings my right index finger right next to the screw in release know
Grischa

Handheld with rise. Wow. A new frontier. Very interesting and beautiful images. Could you reverse the side that the rise control is on by reversing the camera body back to front? (This might help with the "long finger" problem.)
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
I think the Kapture Group cable allows that for backs requiring wake up. At least that is what I will be testing...
Thanks. Love the image! Hope to get there some day.
Bob
Bob - you are correct and the image I attached was taken with the Kapture Group cable. Since then I've decided to reduce the amount of cables draging and go without.

Don
 

rga

Member
What many people do not realize is there is no mirror bouncing around here causing vibrations so shooting handheld with these shutters is like shooting a Leica M8 or M9 and you can handhold them for a good half second. Really not much difference here just need to get these comfortable in your hands and these grips help a lot in that quest. I plan on doing this with my cambo no doubt about it
Yep! A large format Leica. All we need is a range finder...
I was trying hand held on our cat last night. Just messing around at 800 ISO, no grip and using a Disto for distance. Problem is a laser dot drives her completely nutso. It's like she's in hyperdrive...
Settled on shooting a table :)
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
What many people do not realize is there is no mirror bouncing around here causing vibrations so shooting handheld with these shutters is like shooting a Leica M8 or M9 and you can handhold them for a good half second. Really not much difference here just need to get these comfortable in your hands and these grips help a lot in that quest. I plan on doing this with my cambo no doubt about it
Guy - I found out that adding the new wooden grips help holding the camera and makes it much better to grab on to. Plus it just looks sexy!
 

JonMo

New member
Hi Don,
I was also considering adding the wood grips to my RS.
You seem to feel its made a great difference for you, I don't find handholding it very difficult now but the grips are about as far from ergonomic as you can get and seem like an afterthought compared to my Cambo wide DS.
Anyone know if it can be done in Canada, I know Don did his own.
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
Hi Don,
I was also considering adding the wood grips to my RS.
You seem to feel its made a great difference for you, I don't find handholding it very difficult now but the grips are about as far from ergonomic as you can get and seem like an afterthought compared to my Cambo wide DS.
Anyone know if it can be done in Canada, I know Don did his own.
Your local Cambo dealer should be able to the handles for you. I understand after the fact that Cambo feels this is a dealer installation however you might be able to talk your dealer into letting you do it yourself with the understanding that you have no recourse if you run into a problem. Speaking of problems, I found at least 3 of the screw heads got stripped as I attempted to remove them. My feeling is that Cambo put these on super tight with no thoughts of a replacement at the time - then again I have had my WRS since late 2008.

For all the grief I had in replacing the handles (I wrote about it here) it was well worth it. The wooden handles are slightly larger which will give you a much better grip in cold weather and gloves and it makes for an easier grip to do the occasional handheld shot. Plus it just looks sexy as hell! :D
 
P

Porpoise

Guest
Use a tech cam for it's dynamic range, the movements, the nice handling or the lovely rosewood handles, but resolution when shooting handheld, probably suffers badly. Even if you don't use hyperfocal distances. I suspect that for highest resolution, using Sensor+ is the smart thing to do in most available light circumstances. It will give you a resolution similar to that of a handheld Leica M9. If a 18 mp camera needs a tripod to achieve it's maximum resolution, you won't get more resolution by using a 36 mp sensor instead of the tripod. It will only give you bigger files.

Don't get me wrong. Beautiful pictures can be made with less than 80 mp resolution. For most purposes, 20 mp is probably overkill already.

As I don't like traveling with a tripod but love my Alpa TC, I really hope to disprove my aforementioned opinion. But Imatest doesn't seem to like 80 mp files. Or it needs more memory. Why can't they release a Mac version?
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
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