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Technical Camera Images

rga

Member
Hi Vincent,
I think I saw that field; incredibly bright mustard! It was like a thick carpet. Beautiful, but I just didn't see an image (might have been going too fast. Also, it was the afternoon and so it looked pretty flat at that time of day.

I'm not sure I'll make it tomorrow; just filled up my vehicle to the tune of $50+ and I think I need to throttle back a bit.

I'd love to see some of your images!
Best,
Bob

RGA,
check out the mustard south of yountville, east side of 29. or look me up, I drove all over looking at mustard today.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
Alpa | SK 35 XL | handheld | 1/60 | f5.6 | iso 100 | 7mm rise
Beautiful.

BTW, don't you know you cannot shoot handheld with MFD, not unless you use 1/250s. You new guys have got to get with the program. You come in here, making great images, and you are not even doing it properly.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Grim day in Crescent City, CA so I figured I'd do some T/S with my Alpa. What seems easy with the Cambo seems MUCH harder with the Alpa. After much struggling to get it right here's the only decent result from the day. :eek: (Btw, very considerate of that guy to walk into the space during one of the good exposures! :thumbs: )

Alpa 12 STC, IQ160, 90 HR-W 5mm fall (rear rise), 3 degrees rear tilt 1/30 @ f/11.3
 
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rga

Member
Hi Graham,
What did you find to be so difficult vs the Cambo? Thanks. I'm very curious,
Bob
Grim day in Crescent City, CA so I figured I'd do some T/S with my Alpa. What seems easy with the Cambo seems MUCH harder with the Alpa. After much struggling to get it right here's the only decent result from the day. :eek: (Btw, very considerate of that guy to walk into the space during one of the good exposures! :thumbs: )

Alpa 12 STC, IQ160, 90 HR-W 5mm rise, 3 degrees rear tilt 1/30 @ f/11.3
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Hi Graham,
What did you find to be so difficult vs the Cambo? Thanks. I'm very curious,
Bob
Bob,

I guess it's just the disconnect between what I expected to happen and what I actually got. With the T/S around the nodal point of the lens(as with the Cambo) I could easily calculate what tilt I thought I needed and wham I got sharp from toes to horizon using infinity or with a tweak.

With the Alpa T/S mounted on the rear I tried to calculate the tilt based on the tripod height and I initially got it ok at about 3.2 degrees but as soon as I added some rise/fall it all fell apart and I lost the sense of being in control of what was happening. I think I need a hands on with someone skilled in using this set up because when I nailed it it was fabulous but I just don't feel quite in control yet. The light was horrible today too so I couldn't rely on my focus mask on the IQ to really help.

The problem is definitely me, not the gear. I feel like a total newbie on this adapter. With the Cambo set up I was immediately productive which was the strange contrast between shooting experiences. It was the same with my Hartblei super-rotator and also Nikon T/S lenses which I mastered pretty quickly. I'm sure that the problem is that I'm over correcting for things and so ending up way off. Practice, practice, practice i suspect is the solution. Any advice?

Oh, and btw, no I'm not changing from my Alpa! You'd have to prise it from my cold dead hands!! :D
 

rga

Member
It's no small discussion, but I think a very important and interesting one I would like to have and learn from. I'm hitting the hay right now but would like to continue with you (and anyone else of course) tomorrow. I'll chime in then.
Best,
Bob
Bob,

I guess it's just the disconnect between what I expected to happen and what I actually got. With the T/S around the nodal point of the lens(as with the Cambo) I could easily calculate what tilt I thought I needed and wham I got sharp from toes to horizon using infinity or with a tweak.

With the Alpa T/S mounted on the rear I tried to calculate the tilt based on the tripod height and I initially got it ok at about 3.2 degrees but as soon as I added some rise/fall it all fell apart and I lost the sense of being in control of what was happening. I think I need a hands on with someone skilled in using this set up because when I nailed it it was fabulous but I just don't feel quite in control yet. The light was horrible today too so I couldn't rely on my focus mask on the IQ to really help.

The problem is definitely me, not the gear. I feel like a total newbie on this adapter. With the Cambo set up I was immediately productive which was the strange contrast between shooting experiences. It was the same with my Hartblei super-rotator and also Nikon T/S lenses which I mastered pretty quickly. I'm sure that the problem is that I'm over correcting for things and so ending up way off. Practice, practice, practice i suspect is the solution. Any advice?

Oh, and btw, no I'm not changing from my Alpa! You'd have to prise it from my cold dead hands!! :D
 

Thierry

New member
Dear Graham,

This is absolutely normal, when not using the T/S adapter on the lens plane. When tilting or swinging on the rear it affects the perspective, the focus, respectively also the reproduction scale, which in turn again affects the tilt/swing angle. When using parallel shift, V or H, it does affect the focus as well. It needs effectively a little time and some experience to get the angle right. But that is not an Alpa specific issue.

Best regards
Thierry

Best regards

Bob,

I guess it's just the disconnect between what I expected to happen and what I actually got. With the T/S around the nodal point of the lens(as with the Cambo) I could easily calculate what tilt I thought I needed and wham I got sharp from toes to horizon using infinity or with a tweak.

With the Alpa T/S mounted on the rear I tried to calculate the tilt based on the tripod height and I initially got it ok at about 3.2 degrees but as soon as I added some rise/fall it all fell apart and I lost the sense of being in control of what was happening. I think I need a hands on with someone skilled in using this set up because when I nailed it it was fabulous but I just don't feel quite in control yet. The light was horrible today too so I couldn't rely on my focus mask on the IQ to really help.

The problem is definitely me, not the gear. I feel like a total newbie on this adapter. With the Cambo set up I was immediately productive which was the strange contrast between shooting experiences. It was the same with my Hartblei super-rotator and also Nikon T/S lenses which I mastered pretty quickly. I'm sure that the problem is that I'm over correcting for things and so ending up way off. Practice, practice, practice i suspect is the solution. Any advice?

Oh, and btw, no I'm not changing from my Alpa! You'd have to prise it from my cold dead hands!! :D
 

rga

Member
Good Morning Graham!
Our approaches are very different. I don't calculate anything. I use the Alpa ground glass. It is not as difficult if you use the GG for framing (using rise fall) and then apply tilt.
If I want to stitch, I use camera movements that are 90deg from the plane of tilt (vertical tilt, shift horizontally/horizontal tilt, shift vertically).
My guess is this might be more limiting that what you do (calculate a tilt and rise/fall and shift any way you want). I haven't tried that, but I'm sure it's possible with the GG; just haven't found a situation needing it.
The nice thing about the 80 and above (the lenses that you can use with the tilt), is that they can be stopped down to about f/16.3 with my P45+ without visible degradation.
For near/far with the 35, focus shift is needed if I want closer than 1.9m in focus.
So I'm sure that is different (and perhaps more limiting) than you have with the Cambo, but it hasn't posed any limitations for me thus far.
There is an Alpa GG item in the for sale area that seems reasonable priced...
Best,
Bob
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Thanks Bob & Thierry.

I do have the GG already & bellows/mask although I haven't used it for quite some time as normally use the VF (iphone or optical) for basic framing with shift/rise/fall and then shoot/check/adjust on the LCD of the back. With the IQ160 I also leverage the focus mask display and generally focus stack when I need extended depth of field. I guess that I've become pretty proficient with this approach as I can set up and fire off a stack of frames in no time but it's a pain to then have to post process them vs a single shot nailed in the field with tilt.

Regarding the math, it's pretty easy to set the angle based on the height and approximate. It's here where things get out of my control. Maybe it's time to break out the focus hood & GG/loupe again ...

This is absolutely normal, when not using the T/S adapter on the lens plane. When tilting or swinging on the rear it affects the perspective, the focus, respectively also the reproduction scale, which in turn again affects the tilt/swing angle. When using parallel shift, V or H, it does affect the focus as well. It needs effectively a little time and some experience to get the angle right. But that is not an Alpa specific issue.

Best regards
Thierry
Thierry, what would help is some guidelines as to the approach to take here. With simple tilt/swing on the lens plane I think that I've got it pretty well understood. However, with the adapter off the lens plane I'm lacking the explanation along the lines of 'if I do X then Y + Z will happen ...'. I feel like there are multiple effects to each small adjustment and it's here where I'm struggling.

With my Nikons it was much easier due to live view. With the Alpa T/S I'm not quite sure whether to leave focus at infinity & dial in the tilt to align the focus plane with where I want it or whether I need to adjust focus closer to my main subject etc. As you mentioned, as I tilt & shift the image will move in relation to the frame too. Foreground looming with the rear tilt isn't a concern as I typically want this in landscape images so at least that variable is one that I can ignore.

Do you have any good pointers to references to using the rear adapter? I'm pretty well read up on the classics from Stroebel, Merklinger etc.
 
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cunim

Well-known member
Graham, sorry if I am being dense but do you specifically need the geometric effects of putting the tilt on the back as opposed to the front? Yes, it is a pain reversing the Alpa but perhaps easier than the relearning you are faced with?
 

rga

Member
Very curious now. With the IQ backs, does the focus mask work (i.e., does what the focus mask show change) when you stop down? Can you see what will be in focus at f/16 that wasn't in focus at f/5.6?
Thanks,
Bob
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Very curious now. With the IQ backs, does the focus mask work (i.e., does what the focus mask show change) when you stop down? Can you see what will be in focus at f/16 that wasn't in focus at f/5.6?
Thanks,
Bob
The IQ will analyze the shot and do a contrast determination to show on screen what it thinks is or isn't in sharp focus. You can adjust the tolerance for this. It works on the actual capture (not live view) and so yes if you shot at f/5.6 and f/16 it would show the near/far range of focus on screen for each image. I use it extensively to evaluate my shots in the field. For focus stacking I can see the range for each capture in bands from my toes all the way out to objects at infinity as I focus out there. With tilt, when I get it right, you see literally a carpet of in focus image highlighted from up close to the distance.

I warn you that getting a demo of this is likely to lead you down an expensive path :p
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
I warn you that getting a demo of this is likely to lead you down an expensive path :p


Indeed it will! The technical features of both focus mask and live view have basically rendered the GG on a tech cam obsolete... You should have seen Graham's face light up when he borrowed a Cambo with a 40 TS lens on it combined with his IQ160 back -- his words were something on the order of, "I'm afraid that's going to prove a very expensive demo for me."

:ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL:
 

Bryan Stephens

Workshop Member
I have only had my P40+ for about 2 months, but after shooting the IQ at the DV workshop I am already looking forward to the upgrade.

Focus Mask and LV took a lot of the guesswork out of my tilt photos which was huge. When I was "forced" to use my P40+ again, I actually had to work a little harder at getting my images, and to be honest, they were not quite as sharp (Then again, I had only been using a Tech Cam for 3 days)
 
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