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Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

Professional

Active member
I have H4D-60 which is traded in from my previous H3DII-39, it is fine or so so for landscapes but it is shinning for fashion in studio, all the shots i did of portraits not fashionable were all perfect and i am happy and the people were happy, the files are amazing, sure Phase One and Leaf are capable of those too, but i preferred that Hasselblad for portraiture in studio and out, if i will do landscape i will go for Phase, but for fashion i am very happy with my Hasselblad, and forget H4D-31, go with H4D-40 or H4D-50.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I agree I would tend to stay away from the H31 and P30 today given how nice the newer 40mpx sensors are. Just think in the long run the newer tech backs are the balance point over the older Kodak chips in those backs although still very good and where for years. I just like these sensors better overall. I believe the H40 is also Dalsa and the H50 is Kodak but of a newer design 6 micron over the H31 and P 30 which if I recall correctly
6.8 micron.
 

gazwas

Active member
I believe the H40 is also Dalsa and the H50 is Kodak but of a newer design 6 micron over the H31 and P 30 which if I recall correctly 6.8 micron.
The H4D-40 and H4D-50 both use a new generation of Kodak chip and its only the H4D-60 that uses the Dalsa chip like the P65+.

Its hard to explain but to me, Phase backs have a very different look to the Hasselblad equivalents. A more polished "advertising look" and if I shot fashion, I'd prefer the more raw look of the Kodak chipped Hasselblad's. They just render the textures differently.

Its very hard to explain the way the different systems render the image and its best to test them both to see for yourself IMO. The Phase files look amazing straight from capture as they have some curves etc applied to them. In comparison, the Blad files are pretty flat straight from camera and leave the photographer to tweak so this can be a shock at first but don't let that put you off.

As others have stated I'd avoid the 31 and ideally look at the H4D-40/50 or the H3D-39II.

Fun times ahead!!!
 

djonesii

Workshop Member
I moved from a D300 to a ZD on a ADF-II then o a P30+

All I really shoot with it is fine art figure in the studio, either strobe or natural light.

As Guy has said, the crop factor matters a lot! In the small community here, I have just bought his 35mm lens ( third hand!), and I'm still lusting after the 28mm.

I now have finally got my tethering working, and if I had actual clients, rather than just doing this as a hobby, the wow factor of C1 coupled with iPads would be a heavy factor in leaning towards P1. Look closely at the software what ever choice you make. LightRoom does not work well with P1 files.

Another factor for me is that once the MF vs FF dSLR bridge is crossed, the lenses available become a factor, I'm still using the pre digital lenses, and they are VERY good relative to the Nikon primes. The D lenses while better than the old ones, for me, are some what marginal diminishing returns. For my work, a leaf shutter is not really that important.

I cannot fully explain this effect, but somehow, I think that my rate of growth in what I want and can get from an image has been much faster with MF .... some how, I just could not get there ( where ever that is ) with the Nikon .... I tried a D3X, and it was just more of the same. The discussion about texture has something to do with it, but there is still more in it than just that. Vague as it is, I'm really happy with the P30+

Do drop me a note if you would care to see some of my work.

YMMV

Dave
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Thanks Gareth for the correction on the H40. Reason I said I believe. LOL

We always want accurate data for sure.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Shay one other thing being in Isreal is you may have limits on your support factor. What type of dealer network you have for support. If you only have a certain brand available this is something to consider as well.

BTW let's not forget Leaf backs in all this, they also produce outstanding backs and a lot of folks here are using them as well. Usually tied into a Mamiya system but some folks use Leaf and Phase backs on the older Hassy H2 bodies.

You certainly have options.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Btw to point out a new IQ 140 is almost exactly the same price as a used P65. The only sensor difference is the crop. They use the same sensor but the IQ series offers the new tech in the LCD. One other note that I found in the IQ 160 is the speed of the back is very fast compared to the P65, now I never ran a speed test between them but the Iq series is very fast at shooting which has big processors to move data. My bet is the IQ with being 40mpx is going to fly here over all the rest of the Phase backs. If you are a heavy speed shooting shooter than this is certainly something to consider. MF is slower shooting than the Canon/Nikon brands.

The shooting speeds are posted on Phase site in the specs if you want to look at that. Just given the same money and maybe no need for 60 mpx it is something to think about on the IQ 140. I know I drove myself crazy making the same decisions. I had the IQ 140 on order first than thought P65 for the same money and I finally said screw it and go for the IQ 160. So your not alone here making these tough decisions. So know all your options
 

Craig Stocks

Well-known member
I'm new here, and also just moving up from Canon 1DsIII to Phase One. Comparing the 1DsIII images to the P65+, I'm blown away by the increase in detail and dynamic range.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the current sale on the P65+ package (back, body and 80mm lens) on sale in the US for $29,990. I originally had ordered the IQ160 package, but when the P65+ sale came out, I changed my order to the P65+ and added a couple more lenses instead. Since I use the system almost exclusively for landscape work, the features on the IQ series were not that important to me, but the price difference was too hard to pass up.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Well said and I know a lot of people are going for used or new P65 and I have recommended them to many. It's a awesome back and same sensors as my 160. If you don't need or want the new tech than you can save a LOT of money going to the P65 and that new promotion is very nice on the P65. For studio shooters there is really no need for the IQ since many will be tethered anyway or in a controlled environment .
 

symbolphoto

New member
Shay, one more thing... i'm assuming you use strobes with models. The Hassy uses only leaf shutter lenses vs. most Mamiya lenses rely on the body focal plane shutter. The ones that don't are typically prohibitively expensive.(Except the 80mm)

I have the H3DII-31 which is the predecessor to the H4D-31. I can shoot anywhere from 30 seconds to 1/800th a second sync speed with ALL Hasselblad lenses. That and you can pick up a 100 2.2 Hassy (Arguably one of the best) lenses used on forums for typically around 2500.

Example: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=45837.0

So that's another factor to keep in mind. They are both great systems, but it's important to know the pluses and minuses of each.

.02
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Yes and Phase right now has 3 on the market that will do up to 1/1600 flash sync in the LS glass. Currently 55,80,110 with 150 and 240 in the works. On the other side of the coin it is focal plane shutter as well and can go to 1/4000 of a second with all lenses. Actually i think these are the biggest differences between the two systems. Obviously others but these stand out the most. So its a back and forth on needs here on which system will work best for you. End of the day they are both great systems and there is not a wrong one. But good to know and understand the data so you can make a smart choice. Worst case you buy one without doing the homework and your wrong.
 

H3dtogo

New member
Hey Shay, if you are in Antwerp and my P40+ set is not yet sold you are welcome to try this one and see if it fit's you.
 

pophoto

New member
Hello,

I am also new here. I also wanted to ask questions about the Hasselblads and the IQ series, but seems like there's a lot of answers in different forums here. However, I also wanted to know the biggest difference or shall I say advantages/disadvantages in focal plane shutter and leaf shutter lenses.

Thanks,
Po
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Some basics focal plane shutters are typical of all your Canon/Nikon cams out there and only go as high as 1/250 flash sync speed but they typical go to as much as a high shutter speed as 1/8000 of a second. The shutter itself is a curtain that either travels across or up depending on camera and that time that it is fully open is the max 1/250 so a flash will catch that time period.

Leaf shutters go to only about 1/800 of a second top shutter speed. But a leaf shutter opens from closed position to open position in a circle so it can catch with careful timing by the OEM in building them the flash can be seen up to 1/800 of a second. Very basic answer here. If you go to Hassy they describe leaf shutters pretty well and how they function. So all the Hassy lenses are leaf shutters and go to a max of 1/800 and no more. Now say your outside and want to shoot at a very wide open aperture well 1/800 maybe to slow in bright sunlight and in that case you may have to put a ND filter on. That is the downside here and if your shooting race cars or sports you have that limit. Not typical of MF but just FYI.

Now Phase tricks the LS lenses with the leaf shutters in them to sync at 1/1600 of a second. Not sure EXACTLY how they do it off hand but it does work at that speed.

These are your basic differences and again you can get a full story on leaf lenses from the Hassy site or one of the Hassy reps can give you a link on that data.

Just to add a data point on the Phase bodies and lenses they all will do focal plane but only the LS will do both leaf and focal plane. So your LS lenses will go to 1/4000 but only sync at 1/1600 max. And you need lights that have a extremely fast flash duration as well. Not all lighting will do that. But that is a whole other topic.
 

symbolphoto

New member



^ not the best example but it's something i have online.... shot at 1/800th during full sunlight daytime. It's great having the ability to black out the sky if needed.
 

pophoto

New member
Thanks Brendan and Guy, for your scarily quick replies.
If I didn't know better, I would have thought you guys posted the same time as my question! Very informative indeed!

I am also an Elinchrom user, so I guess maximum utilization would be best! So Brendan, do you like your Hassy and Elinchrom Combo, sorry to ask here, but while we've just touched upon it. Thanks!
 
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