SHAY KEDEM
New member
Thanks Doug, it will only works with Profoto equipment or i can use any other manufacture who can deliver me fast duration strobes?
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Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+
- Thread starter SHAY KEDEM
- Start date
You'll need the 1/1600 sync with that big clunking focal plane shutter in the way on the DF. Sounds like a wheezing old man when you fire the shutter.
Joking aside, its great the Phase DF and LS lenses have a high sync speed but don't fall too much for the marketing blurb as I think most people get lower sync speeds in the less than perfect world of a photographic assignment.
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
Any strobe which has a fast enough duration and has a sync port - just buy an Air receiver.
You can also connect directly via a sync cable to the power pack but it's not what I recommend (since a voltage spike or other catastrophic accident with the pack could damage the back and because you have to carry around another darn cable connected to the system).
I don't know about "marketing hype" - syncing at 1/1600 is certainly a niche application. For many uses/users it wouldn't matter if it was 1/1600 or 1/160 (heck, many users never use any flash at all). But some users/uses benefit enormously from the independence that fast sync provides you - freeing shutter speed and ambient light to go up and down independent of the light you are adding into the scene. You've already indicated fast sync is important to you and it's not rocket science to get a true/full 1/1600 flash sync with a DF and LS (though he is right that it's not all strobes at all power levels - you need to know your equipment).
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
My D1 500 watt units will go at full power to 1/1200 but if I power down a touch the flash duration goes up and I can get to 1/1600 . The air remote is what you will need to get those type of wireless speeds. Really the key is the flash duration. If you can get really fast which not all units do than you should be okay with using the air remote set up.
SHAY KEDEM
New member
So...what is the minimum flash duration needed in order to achieve 1/1600 sync speed?
It all depends on the spec your flash manufacturer measures their flash duration and the decay of the flash light pulse. Some measure flash duration with t=0.5 which measures the time the intensity of the flash is above 50% of its maximum value. Others use the more accurate t=1.0 measures the length of time the intensity is above 10% of maximum.
Off the top of my head. I think a flash duration measured with t=0.5 usually means unless you use your flash heads on max or very near max output it equates to about 1/3 of the maximum number quoted. So a t=0.5 duration of 1/1000 is usually about 1/320.
Someone else can probably explain it better than me though.
paulrossjones
New member
I'm bias, but I have a contax and I love it. It's simple and intuitive, the lenses are sharp and fast, and the kit can be picked up very reasonably priced.
The 80 f2 looks nicer when blurred than an ef 50mm f1.2, and has far less ca. But the canon 85 1.2 is still the most beautiful lens I've used, hopefully using a hasselblad 110mm f2 (purchasing next)will be be as good.
I went from a h1 to the contax, and even though the h1 is a competent camera, the lenses blur not very nice, and after years of using, I still got lost in menus. I just didn't love it.
I've tested a p30+ on the contax, but because it already has a smaller finder than the h1, cropping it is a no go. I think you need a almost full frame chip or a full frame.
I bought a p65 for it, but I have only shot about 4k of images so far, I am very impressed. Also, the 15mb files appear a bit nicer than canon files. P65 shoots very fast in that mode, shooting vertical has more than enough res for most uses, unless there is a heap of cropping.
The 60mb files are huge, and chew up a heap of space. But shooting med format forces you shoot slower than a canon, so will probably shoot a similar data amount.
Paul
The 80 f2 looks nicer when blurred than an ef 50mm f1.2, and has far less ca. But the canon 85 1.2 is still the most beautiful lens I've used, hopefully using a hasselblad 110mm f2 (purchasing next)will be be as good.
I went from a h1 to the contax, and even though the h1 is a competent camera, the lenses blur not very nice, and after years of using, I still got lost in menus. I just didn't love it.
I've tested a p30+ on the contax, but because it already has a smaller finder than the h1, cropping it is a no go. I think you need a almost full frame chip or a full frame.
I bought a p65 for it, but I have only shot about 4k of images so far, I am very impressed. Also, the 15mb files appear a bit nicer than canon files. P65 shoots very fast in that mode, shooting vertical has more than enough res for most uses, unless there is a heap of cropping.
The 60mb files are huge, and chew up a heap of space. But shooting med format forces you shoot slower than a canon, so will probably shoot a similar data amount.
Paul
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paulrossjones
New member
Also, I just shot for the last few days outside with flash on the contax. Needed to use a 8xnd to reduce the light. So you need more flash.
Over powered flash outdoors is a bit of an overused, tired technique in my opinion. But sometimes replicating the sun can be helpful when the clouds come out. It would be nice to have a leaf shutter for the contax, but with an nd and turning up the flash power, makes a usable solution.
Paul
Over powered flash outdoors is a bit of an overused, tired technique in my opinion. But sometimes replicating the sun can be helpful when the clouds come out. It would be nice to have a leaf shutter for the contax, but with an nd and turning up the flash power, makes a usable solution.
Paul
Ben Rubinstein
Active member
It's a shame that Hasselblad isn't that much of an option for you Shay. The True Focus would be great and I find the body and lenses build to be superior but the dealer in Israel just doesn't inspire confidence like Jugend (P1/Leaf dealer).
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
For 1/1600 sync I think you need about 1/3400 flash duration but I need to check that for sure. Dont hold me to that number
symbolphoto
New member
Agreed, especially for a fashion shooter. I've used H4D's at shows where they were showing the difference and wish i had an H4D body. (I think i'm going to upgrade to get True Focus at some point).
The difference between 1/800th and 1/1600th for action freezing is negligible. Unless you are shooting the very fastest of action i don't see how that's important.
And quite frankly unless you have Broncolor Scoro packs, it's unlikely you'd have enough light to take advantage of those speeds anyway.
Even the Elinchrom Ranger RX AS pack does have a duration of 1/5120 but that's only when you put an A head on the B port, which means less power output. Typical at full power on the A port is 1/2250. Which is plenty fast.
Don't fall for the numbers game. There is more to your choice than numbers. Feel both systems, look into the support for them.
.02
I really dont understand what should look different regarding the proportion of a human body when using a larger format, or what should look different between an image taken with an 4/3 ration vs one which is cropped to 4/3.
I agree regarding texture and overall image appearance that MF satisfies me most.
I could see a difference between WLF and eye-level finder because of different perspective, but other than that?
Can anybody explain?
I agree regarding texture and overall image appearance that MF satisfies me most.
I could see a difference between WLF and eye-level finder because of different perspective, but other than that?
Can anybody explain?
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
1 stop isn't negligible in some situations.
But more importantly flash sync speed outside of the studio is not just about freezing action, it's about allowing shutter speed, ISO, aperture, and flash to float more independently from each other.
Just goes to show you how you use a camera largely dictates how important/useful any given feature/spec is for you.
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One Partner of the Year
Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter | RSS Feed
Buy Capture One 6 at 10% off
Masters Series Workshop:
New England Landscape - Fall Color (Oct 5-8)
What I was referring to in my original post has to do with the angle of the "projecting ray" in relationship to the "principal ray" (lens axis plane)
http://soma.sbcc.edu/users/DaVega/F... regole della prospettiva practica, 1611..jpg
The angle of the projecting ray effects our perception of perspective. It's almost too difficult to fully explain how it works in an internet forum, but there's plenty of information written about it in books on the psychology of Renaissance perspective for anyone that's interested in researching. None of this is taught in photo schools so nobody should feel bad for never having been exposed to it. It's one of those things that a lot of artists outside of photography understand but few photographers are aware of.
But it should be partially self-explanatory just from looking at the picture that the angle of the projecting ray coming from the "center of projection" is going to change depending on where the subject sits within the "picture plane" (frame.) The angle will be smaller for objects closer to the lens axis plane than those at the edges of the frame. This means that the size of the frame itself can effect the angle of the projecting rays that are captured. Any cropping in post would happen after capture and have no effect on the angle of the projecting rays.
SHAY KEDEM
New member
That's a start of an explanation for this amazing brainstorm about proportion over MF VS. proportion over 35MM.
I really don't know how to explain this phenomena in a non-physically terms , i just can say that somehow human body looks more "right" or proportionally "Natural" over MF, I know that basically it's part psychological, it's how the brain translate the image. I notice this issue by trying to achieve this "esthetic" proportion with 35MM system and lenses (over and over again) and...fail.
Quentin_Bargate
Well-known member
I'd certainly include Hasselblad in the mix. I shoot with a H4D-50 and the handling and performance are both excellent
From a shoot of mine a few days ago, at the Hasselblad Studio in London
From a shoot of mine a few days ago, at the Hasselblad Studio in London
SHAY KEDEM
New member
The IQ is great, yet i wonder if the skin tone at this photo is set to neutral. it seems to be a bit orange-tinted.I'd certainly include Hasselblad in the mix. I shoot with a H4D-50 and the handling and performance are both excellent
From a shoot of mine a few days ago, at the Hasselblad Studio in London
Reproduction of skin-tone is one of the most important issues for me as a fashion photographer, and white balance should be accurate as hell if i'm gonna spend big bucks for a pro-tool such as 645DF or Hasselblad.
Can anyone tell me how both systems dealing with skin tone reproductions and accurate zero-point WB?. (Please refer to Leaf, P1, Hass backs)
Another question - I've had demo with both systems (645DF + HASSY H4D), how critical is the "TRUE FOCUS" technology?, is there any equivalent tech inside the 645DF body?
Thanks again for this fabulous thread.
symbolphoto
New member
Hasselblad is known for its colors outside of the box. It's a huge selling point for them and i can confirm it's true. I won't sit here and tell you it's perfect. It's not, but it give you a fantastic starting point. Especially coming from say Canon or Nikon. That being said, i still use color-checkers as color is never perfect especially when influenced from multiple light sources.
Secondly, True Focus works. Try two images with True Focus on and off. You will see the difference when zooming in. I tested it down in NYC at one of the Hassy Events... it's truly amazing.
.02
Secondly, True Focus works. Try two images with True Focus on and off. You will see the difference when zooming in. I tested it down in NYC at one of the Hassy Events... it's truly amazing.
.02
One word Guy ... Plume.
Gary is great to work with and you'd like him.
Take a peek at the Plume Wafers ... I have two of them for my studio ... big puppies!
Also, Profoto can take Elinchrom with their adapter. So, for a big portable unit I use the Elinchrom Octa with a Profoto head.
Just a few thoughts for you.
-Marc
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Thanks Marc and yes Plume makes nice boxes for sure