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Will you talk Hasselblad with me (H4D)?

P

pophoto

New member
Hey Guys,

I've read, and confirmed with the author of an online subscription site for camera and lens reviews that H4D HC lens( HCD 28/4 & HC 100mm f/2.2) suffers from softness especially on 50MP or above. And that the HC lenses are not up to the task of the big sensors being shoved into the H-series bodies. In the tests he needed to stop down on the 100/2.2 to f/8 before you see acceptable sharpness. Can anyone else add to this and confirm his findings?

Going as far as saying the HC 120/4 at f/8 is outperformed by the Leica 120/2.5 wide open! So really, are the Hasselblad lenses under performing that much?.

The marketing of the Hasselblad otherwise has me quite sold, although the Leica S2 looks good on paper too, and IQ series is a winner for landscapes (at least that the idea drilled into me more recently, you know who you guys are).

Thanks
Po
 
P

pophoto

New member
Lets just say very soft and especially to corners, poor details, perhaps okay sharp at center at most. Evident sharpness in center where you know you have focused correctly where this is for only for a small distance despite smaller aperture and very evident blur outside of center. Also very relative case, whereby if compared to another system say the Leica S2 and its lenses, showing better micro contrast and just a higher quality through the image. Again I've purposely left out details, since it wouldn't be right to post his text over here. However, I am interested in user/testers findings, or even if you have a friend who says the same thing.

I want to know more about the H4d system and it's lenses.
 
Stan Lawrence

Stan Lawrence

New member
pophoto said:
Lets just say very soft and especially to corners, poor details, perhaps okay sharp at center at most. Evident sharpness in center where you know you have focused correctly where this is for only for a small distance despite smaller aperture and very evident blur outside of center. Also very relative case, whereby if compared to another system say the Leica S2 and its lenses, showing better micro contrast and just a higher quality through the image. Again I've purposely left out details, since it wouldn't be right to post his text over here. However, I am interested in user/testers findings, or even if you have a friend who says the same thing.

I want to know more about the H4d system and it's lenses.
Click to expand...
I've been using an H4D 40 with a 35-90. Very sharp, sometimes too sharp. Close up exec portraits require some serious artwork...:cool:
 
D

Dustbak

Member
Hmmm.. I must have missed this on both my H4D60 as well as on my CF39MS. These conclusions I see from some people are often a case of less than optimal skills. The higher pixel backs do require a higher degree of precision while shooting to get the most out of the system.

OTOH, I would not be surprised to be told the Leica S2 lenses outperform the HC lenses. This is what Leica is all about. So what?

The best way to find out for yourself what works for you and what suits your specific needs. When you want the know more about the H4D I suggest you contact a dealer (or a friend that has one) and get one in your hand and start shooting with it. This will tell you much more than we can on a forum like this.

For my taste there is plenty of sharpness with HC lenses, wide open too. Sometimes too much. There are many other reasons I have opted for Hasselblad too.

If optical quality would be the only thing that mattered to me I would not have chosen HB probably but neither the S2. In that case some of the Rodenstock HR lenses would have been my choice.
 
J

jerome

Member
I have been using a H4D50 and I can tell HC 28, HC 50 2, HC 120 are very very sharp !

I suppose the test was "soft" or performed by a S2 dealer ? :)

I can't tell if Leica lenses are better, but you are at the top level anyway ! And be aware that the S2 sensor is "small" compared to the 50 or 60 Hassy sensors.
 
stngoldberg

stngoldberg

Well-known member
pophoto said:
Hey Guys,

I've read, and confirmed with the author of an online subscription site for camera and lens reviews that H4D HC lens( HCD 28/4 & HC 100mm f/2.2) suffers from softness especially on 50MP or above. And that the HC lenses are not up to the task of the big sensors being shoved into the H-series bodies. In the tests he needed to stop down on the 100/2.2 to f/8 before you see acceptable sharpness. Can anyone else add to this and confirm his findings?

Going as far as saying the HC 120/4 at f/8 is outperformed by the Leica 120/2.5 wide open! So really, are the Hasselblad lenses under performing that much?.

The marketing of the Hasselblad otherwise has me quite sold, although the Leica S2 looks good on paper too, and IQ series is a winner for landscapes (at least that the idea drilled into me more recently, you know who you guys are).

Thanks
Po
Click to expand...
I have an H4D50 and have a quite a bit of experience using the HCD28mm and the HC100mm at f/8 and/or f/11.. I also print fairly large (24"X36"). The only softness I have ever seen in my images are more attributable to lack of shutter speed than lens sharpness. Whenever the light allows a shutter speed of 2X (or more) the focal length, the lens sharpness is extraordinary.
I always wonder about the motives of many of the online subscription sites when their published results differ so much from my experience and the experience of so many thousands of professional who use these lenses daily
Stanley
 
P

pophoto

New member
Sorry for not getting back to your replies sooner, connectivity issues until this morning!

Hey guys, thanks for the replies. I was "hoping" to get answers as such from you guys and although, the reviewer tested other MF cameras, say the Leica S2 as mentioned, also the Pentax and the Mamiya DL28. So whether or not he has sub-optimal skill, I'm not qualified to answer.

Dustbak:
While we are on the sub-optimal skill part, do I really need optimal skill all the time to use the H4D well?

Stan: When you say sharp, would you say good enough to the edges even for landscape work too?

Jerome: Along the ways with the reviewer's testing, I'm sure he wasn't biased :)
Thanks for sharing about the primes too, excellent to know.

Have you ALL been happy with the H4D50/60, have there been other issues worthy of note. I've read about the tethered issue where some people lose connection, and require restarting their computers up and not just restarting Phocus. Is Truefocus a gimmick or is it really god send?

Also is the back, applicable to other techcams besides Hass, this is less important to me, but worth knowing:)

Thanks again,
Po
 
stngoldberg

stngoldberg

Well-known member
pophoto said:
Sorry for not getting back to your replies sooner, connectivity issues until this morning!

Hey guys, thanks for the replies. I was "hoping" to get answers as such from you guys and although, the reviewer tested other MF cameras, say the Leica S2 as mentioned, also the Pentax and the Mamiya DL28. So whether or not he has sub-optimal skill, I'm not qualified to answer.

Dustbak:
While we are on the sub-optimal skill part, do I really need optimal skill all the time to use the H4D well?

Stan: When you say sharp, would you say good enough to the edges even for landscape work too?

Jerome: Along the ways with the reviewer's testing, I'm sure he wasn't biased :)
Thanks for sharing about the primes too, excellent to know.

Have you ALL been happy with the H4D50/60, have there been other issues worthy of note. I've read about the tethered issue where some people lose connection, and require restarting their computers up and not just restarting Phocus. Is Truefocus a gimmick or is it really god send?

Also is the back, applicable to other techcams besides Hass, this is less important to me, but worth knowing:)

Thanks again,
Po
Click to expand...
I use all my Hassleblad lenses for landscape (28mm, 100mm, 150mm, 200mm,300mm and the 1.7 extender). They are all sharp to the edge. In addition, The HTS with the 28mm through 100mm allow perfect panoramas which are sharp right to the edge. When I take part in workshops with my H4D50 and my fellow participants compare my work with all their Nikons and Canons, all agree that the difference in resolution is considerable.
Stanley
 
Quentin_Bargate

Quentin_Bargate

Well-known member
Well I'd say true only with the old HC 50mm, which was soft at the edges, but the new version, the HC 50 II whch I traded in my old Mk1 version for, is a much sharper beast and sharp accross the whole frame, as is the 28mm and my 120mm macro. All used on a H4D-50. Perfect tor landscape work, but bear in mind shallower dept of focus with medium format. I solve that by using focus stacking where necessary.

And bear in mind the room for errors at this level is very small. That's one reason that True focus is useful (but mainly in the studio).
 
D

Dustbak

Member
To draw the highest quality out of these high resolution tools you do need to work precise.

Maybe the following comparison is appropriate; The 60 (and the 80 even more so) MP systems are comparable to 4x5 & 8x10 in resolution and final quality. They come in a package that looks like a DSLR and handles pretty much as such as well. Would you expect the best quality when using an 8x10 camera hand-held like a DSLR?

TF (True Focus) is a really welcome addition. It works great but you have to get the hang of using it. It does allow you to put focus anywhere in the frame where you want it (when working handheld).
 
E

evgeny

Member
You point the center circle at subject, press TF button, then recompose the frame and release shutter. I got about 99% sharp images in studio. TF will work in outdoors, too, if subject doesn't move.
 
A

andrew wuttke

New member
you can also set up the camera to work like a 35mm , in that you half press for focus the recompose and shoot (i find the TF button annoying to use) I find this better for shooting people, quicker
 
P

pophoto

New member
Thanks guys. I also want to know if I can shoot this thing like a DSLR, handheld for say people indoors in events, say with a flash on top and such. I know such questions sound silly, as most of you are shooting the H4D in a studio or out in the field for landscape. I just want to have a better idea of the versatility as well. Since it sounds like optimum technique is needed to ensure good focus and sharpness, I wonder what ISO I can shoot upto as well.

Also focus stacking seems great of thing that can hold still for a short period only, am I wrong to think this?

Many thanks,
Po
 
Stan Lawrence

Stan Lawrence

New member
pophoto said:
Stan: When you say sharp, would you say good enough to the edges even for landscape work too?
Click to expand...
I'm a portrait photographer, the only landscape work I do is the background in my beach portraits. I've done closer work in the studio, it appears very sharp from edge to edge. HB takes a little practice if you're used to 35, it is well worth the effort....:cool:
 
J

Jeffg53

Member
It's a goer to a point, at least for me. On the 40, ISO 400 is excellent and 800 is OK for me. I'm a landscape person who shoots this stuff only occasionally. I'm sure you could add a flash to the bracket if needed.
 
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