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Frustrated....
- Thread starter bensonga
- Start date
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
If Steve isn't worried then I'd go with the gaffers tape and try to forget about it. He knows his stuff.
Doug Peterson
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer
Personal Portfolio
T
thsinar
Guest
Gary,
If it can give you some kind of relief, then I can tell you that I have shot many different MF bodies, among them Hasselbald V bodies, with digital backs: some did fit perfectly, some others very tightly and then some wiggled, more or less. It did in most cases not affect the focus, in some rare cases it did (obviously those with the most loose attachment): in these cases the camera body had to be sent in for some adjustments and overhaul, or then we (Sinar) used to provided customized adapters. Therefore I would simply run some tests and see if this is the case.
What wonders me in your case, is that you had a body with back which seemed to match perfectly. And then you get it back and it moves. This seems odd to me and should not be the case.
Best regards,
Thierry
If it can give you some kind of relief, then I can tell you that I have shot many different MF bodies, among them Hasselbald V bodies, with digital backs: some did fit perfectly, some others very tightly and then some wiggled, more or less. It did in most cases not affect the focus, in some rare cases it did (obviously those with the most loose attachment): in these cases the camera body had to be sent in for some adjustments and overhaul, or then we (Sinar) used to provided customized adapters. Therefore I would simply run some tests and see if this is the case.
What wonders me in your case, is that you had a body with back which seemed to match perfectly. And then you get it back and it moves. This seems odd to me and should not be the case.
Best regards,
Thierry
woodyspedden
New member
bensonga
Well-known member
That troubled me also when I got the camera/CFV/40mm lens back from Hasselblad service last week. I understand that they had to make some adjustments to the camera, back or lens (or maybe all 3) in order to get the 40mm lens to work with the 503CWD body and CFV back properly. I assumed that this adjustment in someway just slightly lessened the degree to which the back is snugged up to the camera by those two prongs/hooks at the top. I am sure I would have noticed the metallic clicking noise during the week I used the camera, before I sent it into service. When I pulled it out of the box from Hasselblad service and went to put it on a tripod to test the 40mm & camera, I noticed the clicking sound almost immediately.
I trust the advice and experience of Steve and Marc, so I'm really not worried now about this having any affect on the image quality (and I haven't seen anything in the images to indicate it does). It is after all, just a fraction of a millimeter movement in the back, sort of a clockwise/counterclockwise rotational movement. If it wasn't for that darn clicking sound I hear almost everytime I pick it up or put it on a tripod now, I might have never noticed the small amount of movement/looseness.
My wife is MUCH too understanding and polite to say this to me, but she's probably thinking "if it's not affecting the image, just get over it and move on". I've certainly taken up too much bandwidth on the forum with this one already....sorry folks.
Gary Benson
Eagle River, Alaska
T
tetsrfun
Guest
After reading this, I checked mine. When the back is nearly in place and the small button is pushed, the "click" (cl-unkkk) is not subtle.
Steve
Steve
Every 200 series body I've used with the CFV (3) has been tight as can be. Every 503CW and 501CM showed some play with the CFV ... but not very much. So sending in the 503CW camera for an exchange won't guarantee an air tight fit.
Again, I'm not there to see how much play there is, so your mileage may vary.
With many backs that fit multiple cameras, (in this case: 200 series, 500 series, SWCs, Arc bodies, viewcameras,) it was not uncommon to use shims to zero in the backs.
Send the CFV back AND the 503CW camera into service and tell them you want it to NOT have any play in it. But then don't try to sell it to a 200 series camera owner later :ROTFL:
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
He knows the same amount. I'm just more willing to point it out now
.Doug Peterson
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer
Personal Portfolio
bensonga
Well-known member
I'm almost ready to follow Steve Hendrix's example and jump to Phase One....... :bugeyes:He knows the same amount. I'm just more willing to point it out now
Doug Peterson
No, no.....just kidding. The 503CWD is a great camera. Can't go wrong with 9 micron photosites and Zeiss optics, right? :thumbs:
Gary Benson
Eagle River, Alaska
Learning to relax and not sweat the small stuff.......
No need to apologize for the length of the thread. As great as some gear is, sometimes little things, the technical itches you can't scratch, become exceptionally annoying over time and detract from the pleasure of use.
It depends on your personality of course, but I know it would annoy the crap out of me until I'd resolved it - regardless of how over-the-top the IQ.
It depends on your personality of course, but I know it would annoy the crap out of me until I'd resolved it - regardless of how over-the-top the IQ.
woodyspedden
New member
Gary
No matter if the images are not affected. If you are bugged about the wiggle then send it back to Hassy and have them shim it or whatever it takes to make you happy. This is a $12,500 investment we are talking about here and you should be deriving pleasure from it. I am sure Hassy can have it back to you withing two weeks, particularly if Steve, or Doug Chapman his replacement at PPR paves the way for you.
Woody
S
Samuel Axelsson
Guest
Gary, the back should not move at all. I use a 503CW with a Phase one P20 and the back fits perfectly. It doesn't move a single milimeter. That's the way it must be.
Certainly, Hasselblad is doing you a really bad service. So send the camera back to them so they provide you with what you've paid for.
I think I could write a whole article about how bad Hassselblad is doing certain things but I'll stop here.
I won't tell you what to do but if you're still in the position of being able to return the kit I'd do it and I'd switch to phase. I was in the same stage when chosing a square back and I went with Phase One because their realibility. This system is rock solid and stable.
Just my opinion...
/Samuel
Certainly, Hasselblad is doing you a really bad service. So send the camera back to them so they provide you with what you've paid for.
I think I could write a whole article about how bad Hassselblad is doing certain things but I'll stop here.
I won't tell you what to do but if you're still in the position of being able to return the kit I'd do it and I'd switch to phase. I was in the same stage when chosing a square back and I went with Phase One because their realibility. This system is rock solid and stable.
Just my opinion...
/Samuel
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thsinar
Guest
hi Samuel,
with all due respect (and we know and respect each other), I don't think that this is a reason to switch to another brand.
And to the contrary to what you are experiencing with your combo, there are differences between the different MF bodies, being it Hasselblad or others, from a same model: I have experienced it x-times, with different MF body brands, and with different back brands. Sometimes it did fit perfectly, sometimes too tight, and then more than often wobbling a bit.
This is actually not due to the back, but to the camera body: all backs are made under very tight tolerances, up to 1/1000th of a mm, concerning adaption and mechanical parts. MF bodies which were made for film have much less tighter tolerances.
As I said, this can be adjusted, respectively corrected. I would hope that Hasselblad, if contacted because of such, would be flexible enough to either fix this or exchange the 503 body.
Best regards,
Thierry
with all due respect (and we know and respect each other), I don't think that this is a reason to switch to another brand.
And to the contrary to what you are experiencing with your combo, there are differences between the different MF bodies, being it Hasselblad or others, from a same model: I have experienced it x-times, with different MF body brands, and with different back brands. Sometimes it did fit perfectly, sometimes too tight, and then more than often wobbling a bit.
This is actually not due to the back, but to the camera body: all backs are made under very tight tolerances, up to 1/1000th of a mm, concerning adaption and mechanical parts. MF bodies which were made for film have much less tighter tolerances.
As I said, this can be adjusted, respectively corrected. I would hope that Hasselblad, if contacted because of such, would be flexible enough to either fix this or exchange the 503 body.
Best regards,
Thierry
S
Samuel Axelsson
Guest
Thierry,
Of course it's not a reason to switch. I name switching because Gary himself was thinking about it and I'm using a 503 with a Phase back.
But digital backs and cameras are designed with medical precision and a back that moves is obviously not a good or conmon thing.
Hasselblad is not doing a favor to none sending a defective package.
But the worst thing is that this is the low end kit, and this shows how much they care about it. They still haven't announced the CWD II at their website (or I can't find it)...
/Samuel
Good response Theirry. I have experienced exactly the same thing with different backs and different cameras.
My Kodak ProBack 645C on my Contax 645 was adjusted so poorly that I couldn't achieve close focus with the 80/2 :wtf: and once had a Leaf back that locked on the Mamiya camera :angry:... in both cases back and camera body had to be sent in for adjustment. Kodak argued with me saying it was Kyocere's fault, but Leaf was so fast to act it was like they sent the "Flash" to get it and bring it back. Finally Kodak relented and adjusted everything perfectly.
I called my dealer about another subject and also asked him about this issue and his response was exactly the same as Thierry's ... it can, and does, happen with all of them ... including Phase One backs on any number of different cameras.
He also said that you used to be able to do micro adjustments to the grip prongs (top/back) of the 500 camera, but I looked and don't think that is possible any longer as access is now blocked from inside the body.
Again, on mine it's very minor and has zero effect on the images ... it might, if you gripped the body and back and torqued them while shooting with your third hand
... otherwise mine fits perfectly flush. Just send both back to Hasselblad to be "married" better
I personally wouldn't ask for a new body since even a remote chance of a repeat would really be frustrating.Man, if it's "moving around" that much I'd express that sucker back to Hasselblad immediately.
bensonga
Well-known member
Glad to know I'm not the first one to have experienced this little problem.
I truly was "just kidding" when I mentioned jumping ship to Phase One. I've got too much invested in Hasselblad gear, besides which, the 503CWD-II kit with the 40mm IF lens was a terrific value and I know it's capable of delivering outstanding images. I'm quite sure I will be very happy with it, over the long run.
I really don't think the slight amount of movement (a fraction of a millimeter, just enough to notice) is going to have any affect (or is it effect?, I can never remember) on either the image or any wear and tear on the back or camera.
It's just one of those annoyances, something you notice that you wish wasn't there....especially on a very expensive piece of otherwise finely engineered and built equipment.
It's certainly not far enough out of adjustment that I would want to have it exchanged for another body or back (best I can tell from reading the posts above, it's probably just needs an adjustment to the prongs on the body to snug up the back). I'd worry about getting a replacement camera that once again didn't work properly with the 40mm IF lens!
So I think I will call PPR or Hasselblad next week and see what they suggest.....who knows, maybe it's a relatively simple thing for Hasselblad service to sort out for me. I guess I'm just a little apprehensive, based on past experiences with other equipment, cars etc......you send it in to be repaired, one thing gets fixed and then something else is out of whack or not working when it's returned.....just as happened this time when I sent the 503CWD & 40mm lens in to be adjusted initially. I'm probably just being a little paranoid, if you know what I mean.
What's that saying...."Better the devil you know than devil you don't."? That's kind of how I'm feeling about this right now.
Gary Benson
Eagle River, Alaska
I truly was "just kidding" when I mentioned jumping ship to Phase One. I've got too much invested in Hasselblad gear, besides which, the 503CWD-II kit with the 40mm IF lens was a terrific value and I know it's capable of delivering outstanding images. I'm quite sure I will be very happy with it, over the long run.
I really don't think the slight amount of movement (a fraction of a millimeter, just enough to notice) is going to have any affect (or is it effect?, I can never remember) on either the image or any wear and tear on the back or camera.
It's just one of those annoyances, something you notice that you wish wasn't there....especially on a very expensive piece of otherwise finely engineered and built equipment.
It's certainly not far enough out of adjustment that I would want to have it exchanged for another body or back (best I can tell from reading the posts above, it's probably just needs an adjustment to the prongs on the body to snug up the back). I'd worry about getting a replacement camera that once again didn't work properly with the 40mm IF lens!
So I think I will call PPR or Hasselblad next week and see what they suggest.....who knows, maybe it's a relatively simple thing for Hasselblad service to sort out for me. I guess I'm just a little apprehensive, based on past experiences with other equipment, cars etc......you send it in to be repaired, one thing gets fixed and then something else is out of whack or not working when it's returned.....just as happened this time when I sent the 503CWD & 40mm lens in to be adjusted initially. I'm probably just being a little paranoid, if you know what I mean.
What's that saying...."Better the devil you know than devil you don't."? That's kind of how I'm feeling about this right now.
Gary Benson
Eagle River, Alaska
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