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Sinar M

T

thsinar

Guest
Dear durIII,

"rebanded" Leica MF? What do you meant exactly?

The Sinar m is a Sinar product/camera.

Best regards,
Thierry

Has anyone used the Sinar M system? Could this be the rebanded Leica medium format?
 

durrIII

New member
Sorry Thierry. I am just asking who has used one. We have heard rumors that Leica is coming with a MF digital camera and that Leica and Sinar were partners. So maybe something could come out of this partnership. Didn't mean to step on any toes?

-Durr
 
T

thsinar

Guest
Nothing to be sorry about and to apologize, and no harm at all.

FYI: I am just wondering where from this "rumour" comes: Sinar and Leica are NOT partners at all, by no means.

Best regards,
Thierry

Sorry Thierry. I am just asking who has used one. We have heard rumors that Leica is coming with a MF digital camera and that Leica and Sinar were partners. So maybe something could come out of this partnership. Didn't mean to step on any toes?

-Durr
 

Stuart Richardson

Active member
Thierry -- it is from here:

http://www.pressebox.de/pressemeldungen/jenoptik-ag/boxid-183869.html

Leica and Jenoptik concluded some sort of agreement, and since Jenoptik is Sinar's parent company, there is speculation that Leica and Sinar will be working together.
This is a bit of a leap in my mind. Jenoptik wrote the firmware for the M8, so this agreement is probably more along the lines of making sure that they will help write the firmware for any future Leica digital cameras, as well as keep updating older cameras. Leica had a big problem with the DMR firmware, which Imacon developed, but then refused to update once they had merged with Hasselblad and become a camera company, not just a digital back company. It makes sense for them to sign some sort of agreement with Jenoptik, so that they don't get in that situation again. As for a Leica-Sinar collaboration...well, we can all dream, right?
 

durrIII

New member
Thank you, Stuart. For a minute there I thought I had made up something or more likely, my memory had a short hickup!
Love your site Stuart.

Durr
 
Has anyone used the Sinar M system? Could this be the rebanded Leica medium format?
I have been using the Sinar-M for some time now.
I use the M with my four AF Zeiss Sinaron lenses. I have just returned from Sinar in Switzerland and I was shown a new 28 mm. lens there: the M system is not dead.
The Sinar-M with the AF Module is a Modular camera with a very fast and reliable AF, an option to use Hasselblad V lenses and a joy to use with a new side grip. The camera with the side grip is reasonably light and comfortable.
INHO the ideology (right word?) of the Sinar M is opposite to the ideology of Leica-R (I own an old R4). I think about Sinar M as been a part of Sinar's studio system, a small and expensive part. The shutter module can be used on the Sinar-P3 view camera, you can use two types of battery grips, the camera uses almost the same advanced electronics as Hy6 does.
I think the rumours are wrong. I cannot imagine a R camera with the same form factor and modularity as Sinar-M.
IMO the cooperation between Leica and Jenoptik gives us a hope to get a good internal processing electronics and the AF on par with the Hy6 platform.
Yevgeny
 
Hi, Billy
The Sinar-M was designed to shoot 4 and 16 shot! And I cannot see any vibrations.
When I bought my Sinar-M I had been shooting paintings with my Alpa or Rollei x-act. The purpose ;)
(or excuse) of the M was to shoot catalogues and full scale reproductions of paintings. Then I was able to buy a Sinarback 54H and started to adapt my lousy workflow to 16 shot mode. I had to buy some new Bron lights, a FOBA stand, remove some wood parquet from the floor and only than 16 shot became less of a challenge. I still have some bad shots in 16 shot mode, but 4 shot is almost perfect.
The Makro 120mm AF lens is fantastic (perhaps I have a good copy).
And you can use the P3 with HR CAB lenses....
Yevgeny
Yevgeny,
How is the shutter vibration?
Is it suitable for 4-shot 16-shot work?
Billy
 

Stuart Richardson

Active member
Durr -- thank you very much for the comment on my website. I like your photos very much as well. Particularly the dancers!

Yevgeny, we are very lucky to have you here. I don't think there are very many people around who have had the good fortune to use the Sinar M. It looks like an incredible system, but the prices are simply staggering. Some of the lenses alone cost more than digital backs like the CFV and ZD.
 
....
Sinar M. It looks like an incredible system, but the prices are simply staggering. Some of the lenses alone cost more than digital backs like the CFV and ZD.
I agree, the system is expensive, almost prohibitively expensive. The 28mm (it is used without the AF Prism Module, on a Sinar lens plate) is being sold for US$12,000! It is twice the price of the same lens for ALPA.:confused:
And it is almost impossible to sell the system, just zero second hand market! Well, for me the M looks like an old-fashioned marriage - for life.:)
Yevgeny
 

BJNY

Member
How much is the basic Sinar M?
Back in the day when I was using Sinar 8x10 p
with DB lenses, I recall the digital shutter back then
was about $3k.
 

Stuart Richardson

Active member
The SinarBron USA price list is here:
http://sinarbron.com/documents/Sinar_Pricing_2008.pdf

I am sure there are deals to be had, but not 85% off!

To give you an idea, the focusing screen set is 866 dollars.

The Sinar M itself is listed at 8588, which I assume is the body only. I am not sure how many other things you need to put together a working camera, but it can't be under 10-15000. The 80mm lens is 6538, the 120/4 macro planar is 8156, 40mm distagon 12367 and so on.
 

Stuart Richardson

Active member
I don't want to disparage the camera, because I am sure it is among the most capable camera systems that you can possibly buy, but I would be interested as to why, for example, the 40mm distagon lens is listed at more than double the cost of the 40mm distagon IF of the V mount. Is this even the latest optical formula (IF) or is it the older version? I do see that it has an AF module which will add a great deal to the cost, but it does seem incredibly steep.

The 80mm...well, 6500 dollars for a lens that has the same optical formula as one you can get for under 500 dollars in V mount (80mm CT*)...
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
This is the same with Alpa lenses. i can't figure out what a name really does to the lens to make it double the cost. The damn lens mount boards are just freaking metal. I honestly don't get it. 5200 for a lens that I can buy for cambo at 3600 . Same deal here with Alpa.
 
T

thsinar

Guest
The Sinar m is mostly and primarily used as a shutter system on the Sinar p3, together with the Sinaron Digital CAB lenses, in reproduction institutions like museums, libraries, art galleries, etc ...

It is only later that the possibility to use the "m" body/shutter as a MF camera was made available, with the launch of the Zeiss Digital AF range of lenses and the MF mirror module. These AF lenses have been built in cooperation with Carl Zeiss. They are built with the latest and best possible optical formula, and are specially designed with the maximum resolving power and the best possible contrast rendition all the way to the edges of the image circle. Though these lenses are AF, the focus can also be adjusted manually with a very precise focusing ring.

Below the 4 Zeiss Digital AF available and their recommended prices:

Sinaron Digital AF Distagon 4.0/40 - Euro 4,665.-
Sinaron Digital AF Planar 2.8/80 - Euro 2,409.-
Sinaron Digital AF Macro-Planar 4/120 - Euro 3,018.-
Sinaron Digital AF Sonnar 4.0/180 - Euro 3,628.-

Best regards,
Thierry

I don't want to disparage the camera, because I am sure it is among the most capable camera systems that you can possibly buy, but I would be interested as to why, for example, the 40mm distagon lens is listed at more than double the cost of the 40mm distagon IF of the V mount. Is this even the latest optical formula (IF) or is it the older version? I do see that it has an AF module which will add a great deal to the cost, but it does seem incredibly steep.

The 80mm...well, 6500 dollars for a lens that has the same optical formula as one you can get for under 500 dollars in V mount (80mm CT*)...
 

Stuart Richardson

Active member
Thank you for the information Thierry. Do you know why there might be such a discrepancy between the European and the American pricing? The 40 distagon costs 6888 dollars in Europe, but 12300 in the US...that seems like it must be some kind of mistake...
 
T

thsinar

Guest
Hi Stuart,

that's why I have published our recommended prices: US$ 12'300 seem a "little" over the top, despite the distribution network with dealers.

I have checked but found no such prices listed on SBI's (Sinar's distributor) webpage.

However, it might be interesting to read the technical details and features of this camera here:

http://www.sinarbron.com/sinar/digital/mp1.php

Best regards,
Thierry

Thank you for the information Thierry. Do you know why there might be such a discrepancy between the European and the American pricing? The 40 distagon costs 6888 dollars in Europe, but 12300 in the US...that seems like it must be some kind of mistake...
 
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