Yes, I think the 60XL paired with a 90mm and 40mm would be a great three lens kit. I have the 90 HR-W and 55 APO-SD, and depending on how the 55mm performs on the Credo 60 I might just add the 70HR and 40HR to fill the gaps instead of get the 60XL. I'm sure the 60 is better, especially off center with movements that the 55mm, but I'm interested to see or hear how much better. The 55mm has a massive IC, but will it be up to snuff? The 40HR is the only lens I'm truely resolved to get, but the 70HR is looking very attractive if the 55mm performs well enough, and I'd save a bit of cash.
The GetDPI Photography Forum
Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!
Schneider 72 vs Rodenstock 70
- Thread starter Christopher
- Start date
I agree the Rodenstock 55mm is priced well, but it might limit you on shifts.
I can't remember what the IC of the 55mm is, I believe it's in the HR series of lenses with the pink band? No matter, it will still have the IC indicator, as all Rodenstock glass has this, thus you will not be able to use the full IC to full frame. As you begin to hit the edge, the IC indicator will start to show up as a hard dark vignette and thus your top edge and bottom edge will be ruined. You can't recover this. On some lenses, the 28mm, the 32mm for sure, you will get a lighter white band right before the dark band IC shows up. This white band also effects the image quality and can effect a blue sky. If you are shooting in a wooded area then the lighter band will not show.
Net, to me, if you want max shift, which I do, the 60XL is a better solution. This is true especially on the 60MP Dalsa chips or the 50MP Kodaks. In fact the 60XL would be an excellent shifting lens for the 50MP Kodak chip which has no seam lines.
Someone asked about micro lens ripple. Yes the Schneiders will show this a bit more but I saw it worse with the 35XL and 43XL, and only on 12mm to 15mm of shift on the 43XL. Micro lens ripple will show up as a series of dark vertical bands towards the edge of your shifted shots, you won't see it on center shots. The bands are hard, and very well defined about 1/8 of an inch apart. The LCC before correction will show them but you will also see them on the actual shot. Most times the LCC will correct these. The 60XL does not seem to get the ripple issue as much as the wider Schneiders.
Whereas Rodenstock, as good as they are, really limit your shift due to the fact they put the IC indicator in the lens.
For example, the 28mm, would easily get to 10mm of shift, I have shifted it that far. However you hit the IC indicator by 5mm due to the 70mm IC thus your tops corner and bottom corner on the 10mm shift are pure black. And the IC indicator will effect some more of the image near it, making it very hard to recover.
If you want rise/fall, the IC indicator will not cause as much problems on the Phase backs, due to their layout. You can take the 28mm to around 7mm of rise before you start to see the hard vignette, but I don't use rise fall that much.
The old review on this site of the 28mm's Schneider and Rodenstock shows the examples of what the IC indicator does to your shifted corners.
Paul
I can't remember what the IC of the 55mm is, I believe it's in the HR series of lenses with the pink band? No matter, it will still have the IC indicator, as all Rodenstock glass has this, thus you will not be able to use the full IC to full frame. As you begin to hit the edge, the IC indicator will start to show up as a hard dark vignette and thus your top edge and bottom edge will be ruined. You can't recover this. On some lenses, the 28mm, the 32mm for sure, you will get a lighter white band right before the dark band IC shows up. This white band also effects the image quality and can effect a blue sky. If you are shooting in a wooded area then the lighter band will not show.
Net, to me, if you want max shift, which I do, the 60XL is a better solution. This is true especially on the 60MP Dalsa chips or the 50MP Kodaks. In fact the 60XL would be an excellent shifting lens for the 50MP Kodak chip which has no seam lines.
Someone asked about micro lens ripple. Yes the Schneiders will show this a bit more but I saw it worse with the 35XL and 43XL, and only on 12mm to 15mm of shift on the 43XL. Micro lens ripple will show up as a series of dark vertical bands towards the edge of your shifted shots, you won't see it on center shots. The bands are hard, and very well defined about 1/8 of an inch apart. The LCC before correction will show them but you will also see them on the actual shot. Most times the LCC will correct these. The 60XL does not seem to get the ripple issue as much as the wider Schneiders.
Whereas Rodenstock, as good as they are, really limit your shift due to the fact they put the IC indicator in the lens.
For example, the 28mm, would easily get to 10mm of shift, I have shifted it that far. However you hit the IC indicator by 5mm due to the 70mm IC thus your tops corner and bottom corner on the 10mm shift are pure black. And the IC indicator will effect some more of the image near it, making it very hard to recover.
If you want rise/fall, the IC indicator will not cause as much problems on the Phase backs, due to their layout. You can take the 28mm to around 7mm of rise before you start to see the hard vignette, but I don't use rise fall that much.
The old review on this site of the 28mm's Schneider and Rodenstock shows the examples of what the IC indicator does to your shifted corners.
Paul
danlindberg
Well-known member
Tjv, I have the SK 72 L + Credo 60 combo, so if you would like a raw with specific movements - just tell me the specs and I'll shoot it!
Dan, that's a great offer, thank you!
Essentially, I'd love to see how it would perform if I wanted to stitch a 1:2 (6x12 equiv.) panoramic, with a little bit of fall of the back. So, on the 60, I calculate the max I'd need is 14mm in each direction horizontally, plus about 5-6mm back fall. I don't think this is too extreme, but going by the Digital Transitions visualiser, it's past the listed IC of the lens. Other problem is that the sliding back I have for my Linhof Techno only has horizontal shift / stitching detents for 17mm in each direction, so I'm stuck with that and can't go inbetween. I guess that would just mean I'd crop though and wouldn't be a big deal, as I'm gaining resolution not losing it with the stitch.
To give you an idea of what I shoot, I'd loosely describe it as urban landscape and architecture, although I call myself a documentary photographer. I'm usually shooting things at middle to long distances if I want that aspect ratio. If you do have time to shoot something to show me how this lens performs, I'd be extremely grateful to see any kind of street scene with good detail to inspect at the edge of the frame.
I'm writing this in the hope of the SK 72mm lens fitting the bill (the size, price and general performance are attractive,) but the Rodenstock 70mm has an advertised IC that would handle the above, all be it by hitting the limiting disk when I slide the back to the 17mm detent. Does C1 let you LCC a calibration shot that has a hard, black edge in it, or does it throw it out like in Phocus with Hasselblad backs?
Thanks again for your generous offer,
Tim.
Essentially, I'd love to see how it would perform if I wanted to stitch a 1:2 (6x12 equiv.) panoramic, with a little bit of fall of the back. So, on the 60, I calculate the max I'd need is 14mm in each direction horizontally, plus about 5-6mm back fall. I don't think this is too extreme, but going by the Digital Transitions visualiser, it's past the listed IC of the lens. Other problem is that the sliding back I have for my Linhof Techno only has horizontal shift / stitching detents for 17mm in each direction, so I'm stuck with that and can't go inbetween. I guess that would just mean I'd crop though and wouldn't be a big deal, as I'm gaining resolution not losing it with the stitch.
To give you an idea of what I shoot, I'd loosely describe it as urban landscape and architecture, although I call myself a documentary photographer. I'm usually shooting things at middle to long distances if I want that aspect ratio. If you do have time to shoot something to show me how this lens performs, I'd be extremely grateful to see any kind of street scene with good detail to inspect at the edge of the frame.
I'm writing this in the hope of the SK 72mm lens fitting the bill (the size, price and general performance are attractive,) but the Rodenstock 70mm has an advertised IC that would handle the above, all be it by hitting the limiting disk when I slide the back to the 17mm detent. Does C1 let you LCC a calibration shot that has a hard, black edge in it, or does it throw it out like in Phocus with Hasselblad backs?
Thanks again for your generous offer,
Tim.
danlindberg
Well-known member
No probs.
I shoot lots of 2:1 since that is a favourite aspect ratio for me and 14mm left/right is exactly what I do in horizontal movement. I'll include a simultanous vertical shift of 6mm and send you both left/right raw + lcc. Unfortunately both today and tomorrow is completely full in the agenda but should be able to do this on Wednesday
I shoot lots of 2:1 since that is a favourite aspect ratio for me and 14mm left/right is exactly what I do in horizontal movement. I'll include a simultanous vertical shift of 6mm and send you both left/right raw + lcc. Unfortunately both today and tomorrow is completely full in the agenda but should be able to do this on Wednesday
danlindberg
Well-known member
Incredible! I actually made an effort to get you an urban 2:1 at mid distance. Took the gear and went into town, difficult to park and then walked a bit until I found a nice spot with a modern building. Set up everything and took the first shot. Blurred. Oh no....I had just grabbed the lens and the 17 extension wasn't attached......
Well, nothing to do. I went back home, but then the light was terrible and the golfcourse is under repair so everything is only so-so from our terrace...
Anyway, even if the image is boring and the light is boring, maybe it can give you some guidance still. Unfortunately I have tried several ways of converting high res to 'goodlooking' web images but nothing works, so my webimages look much worse than they should.
I have a zipfile with raw left +lcc + right + lcc. It weighs 240mb and if you pm your email I can 'wetransfer' it to you for your own scrutinizing.
The specs were: 1/2 second exposure (lcc 1 sec), f8, iso 50, 14mm left with simultaneous 6mm lens fall, 14mm right with simultaneous 6mm lens fall. Focus was measured on the tractor in the middle at 176 metres, scale on HPF before infinity goes all the way to 202 metres.
Well, nothing to do. I went back home, but then the light was terrible and the golfcourse is under repair so everything is only so-so from our terrace...
Anyway, even if the image is boring and the light is boring, maybe it can give you some guidance still. Unfortunately I have tried several ways of converting high res to 'goodlooking' web images but nothing works, so my webimages look much worse than they should.
I have a zipfile with raw left +lcc + right + lcc. It weighs 240mb and if you pm your email I can 'wetransfer' it to you for your own scrutinizing.
The specs were: 1/2 second exposure (lcc 1 sec), f8, iso 50, 14mm left with simultaneous 6mm lens fall, 14mm right with simultaneous 6mm lens fall. Focus was measured on the tractor in the middle at 176 metres, scale on HPF before infinity goes all the way to 202 metres.