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MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

archivue

Active member
i can read anything and the opposite about this lens...

How does it perform at f11 ou F16 using full movements on a P45+ or P65+ or similar backs ?
 

Jérôme.E

Member
As Garcia said it is a good lens... For the money!
But mine is very poor when focusing at infinity (best f:16 1/2). When i use it Focusing <7m it is quite sharp at f:8 or 11. I shift it not so much than 10-12mm. Color rendition is good.
I'll send a crop tomorow.
I think the hartblei 45 ts is a better choice even if it's 1000€ more, tilting option can get the extra DOF needed for these non-razors sharp lenses imho.
Don't you get a Rm3d for those kind of shoots?
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member

archivue

Active member
so it lloks like that there is sample variation... i will tried to test it before buying... not that easy with ebay folks !

What's the best F stop ? F11 ?
 
G

Garcia

Guest
Here is a 100% crop at f5.6. Electric poles in the background are 4 miles away. Brick wall in the foreground is in the hundred yard range. Hope this helps.
 

djonesii

Workshop Member
Read Guys comments, he said he was using a P40+

As I understand that has microlenses, and is not recommended for use on a technical camera. Due to the rise/fall r/l shift not working well.

Now, it seems that with this 50mm shift, the right/left shift bit works.

Not really shooting either, I'm a bit confused.

If I put the Mamiya on my ball head, carefully change from portrait to landscape, by rotating the camera, l/r shift now becomes rise/fall. ( I think) Thus this lens could give me the rise/fall that tech camera shooters rave about, with my back.

Having a P30+, I'm quite interested .......

Dave
 

Jérôme.E

Member
P40+ doesn't have microlenses...
Your P30+ is not recommended on a tech cam but it deserves a try with the 50 shift.
You surely find someone who tested it.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
The P40 does not have micro lenses in the truest sense like a P30 so it is fine for tech cams. Many folks are using it today on tech cams. This sensor is identical to the IQ 140 and also the P65 and IQ 160 just the P40 is a crop sensor . In effect the P40 with the 50 shift will have less corner sharpness softness than it's bigger brothers.

In all honesty the P40 in a sense is a much more friendly back with lenses. Since some lenses like a 28, 35 and 45 can get soft on the FF sensors but on the crop P40 they perform much nicer in the corners. Truth be told if you want to use lens like this and some of the older style Mamiya glass you are far better off with the P40 and the IQ 140. Frankly the only downside on a P40 is the crop factor in the viewfinder shows and it's a little tough to see those crop lines when working fast and maybe the only reason I moved up to the FF sensor. If the crop was not there I would have gone IQ 140 and did have it order. To me the IQ 140 is maybe the best all around solution going. Since it's a much friendlier back for some of the cheaper lenses. Most of us do not need more than 40 mpx sensors.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Let me add maybe the best 5 to 7 year back you can buy. People overlook it because they are thinking MPX. Believe me this lacks for nothing on IQ. I wish more people would buy this back to get in the MF world than screwing around trying to squeeze every drop out of 35 that simply is just not close to the quality of file. I say that with a grin. I loved this back
 

Jérôme.E

Member
If the crop was not there I would have gone IQ 140 and did have it order. To me the IQ 140 is maybe the best all around solution going. Since it's a much friendlier back for some of the cheaper lenses. Most of do not need more than 40 mpx sensors.
+1 :thumbup:
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
P40+ doesn't have microlenses...
Your P30+ is not recommended on a tech cam but it deserves a try with the 50 shift.
You surely find someone who tested it.
Yea you might have some color shift with the p30 plus so you may want to think about shooting LCC to correct any color shift. It could possible fall apart too. This one I have not tested. Time to move up in backs. I'm so bad. Lol

Actually I did exactly that went p30 plus to P40 plus and it certainly was worth the upgrade. I like the Dalsa sensor better
 

archivue

Active member
i've just order one with a hight serial number and mint... cross fingers !

by the way, with a P65+ it's similar to a 46mm on a P45+...
 

Audii-Dudii

Active member
Yea you might have some color shift with the p30 plus so you may want to think about shooting LCC to correct any color shift. It could possible fall apart too. This one I have not tested.
Ha! I finally can offer some useful info here, as I have this lens and use it with a P30+ back! That said, note that mine has been modified for use on a Hasselblad V and I use it with an adapter on my Contax 645, so YMMV (although I don't think any of that matters for the purposes of this discussion, so long as the lens elements are in the correct location relative to the sensor, which they clearly are).

That said, I usually use mine in portrait mode and have found the color shift to be minimal for the first few mm of shift (i.e., no LCC correction is usually required), it starts to become noticeable (but is still correctable) at 5-6mm, and vignetting becomes visible at 7-8mm. At max shift, the image will actually go black for a few mm at the very edge of the frame, but even that isn't usually an issue for me, as most of the time this occurs in the sky and I'm usually shooting at night, when the sky is pretty much black anyway. In landscape mode, exactly the same effects occur except that you can add another mm of two of shift to each of the ranges cited above before they become apparent.

Bottom-line: For small shifts of a few mm on a single-frame shot, the Mamiya 50mm/f4 will work fine with a P30+ even without an LCC correction. And if you're shooting for an eventual conversion to b&w or in relatively bright light, where the use of the LCC tool gives more than it takes away, then you can easily get away with shifts of 5-6mm as well, but I wouldn't recommend it for stitching images unless you're trying to achieve a slightly wider angle FoV rather than a larger file size.

As an aside, based upon these results, I'm working on a shift adapter that will allow me to use Hasselblad V lenses on my Contax with a few mm of movement. I had a version successfully working earlier this summer, but accidentally machined it too thin as I was tweaking it and haven't had the time yet to start over on a replacement part. By no means will this be a substitute for a proper tech camera, but it should be a cost-effective solution for my purposes and more importantly, my amateur-level budget.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
i've just order one with a hight serial number and mint... cross fingers !

by the way, with a P65+ it's similar to a 46mm on a P45+...
P40 than you will be very happy with it and congrats. Both our sponsor dealers do have P40+ on hand used from the trade ins and actually I heard from both of them they each have a 140 on hand rear to ship. Honestly i can't recommend these two backs enough for folks that will be happy to stay on budget and in the 40 mpx range. My only real thing that got to me after time was the damn viewfinder and maybe that will be a non issue with a new body. I mean can't they add a dial me in to my sensor crop in the finder so that is all you see. Come on it can't be that hard. LOL

This is certainly a great way to get into the door and like the H40 a great start into the MF world. Both OEM's offer nice upgrade paths when your ready to move up if you want. Hell there was no way in the world i could have gone to a IQ 160 without a great trade in value. Once your in folks they make it so you don't leave with great upgrades. Yea its marketing but it helps us users.
 

archivue

Active member
i still can't understand why there's not shift adapter made for hassy V lenses ( 50FLE... 40CFi)... on a mamiya DF...
 

Jérôme.E

Member
Here are some crops with my mamiya 50 shift (default accentuation and noise reduction at 80iso - Aptus II 10)

f16 1/2 infinity (wireless and 6 secs mirror-up) - the best i reach at infinity



f11 infinity (bad !!)


F11 at 4 meters - works well



I wanted to also use this lens handheld for personal architectural work (i know this sound weird :loco:) 'cause it could be boring to use a tripod in Paris (autorization needed if not "police on my back" like the famous Clash sound) and i like to stay "quiet". With my trusty Minolta VI it works ok (with a bit of keystone for sure) but at f 16 1/2, 80-100 iso and a minimum of 2xfocal speed, weather as to be very clear and/or harsh, so it limits the creativity. Even with that it's not razor sharp... waiting now for my Rm3d (or Alpa STC) :thumbs:... in fact for the money :LOL:
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
This is why I went and bought a Cambo with a 35 lens on it so I can shift and get much better results.
 
G

Garcia

Guest
C50mm is a retrofocus design, so, not much trouble with color cast.

Jérôme: you can easily adjust infinity focus in C50. Under the focus ring rubber, there is 3 little screws. Loose them a bit and then you can turn the focus ring while blocking the front element so you can modify actual lens to focal plane distance when you set the focus to infinity-

Be careful. You may only need offset a couple of millimeters .
 
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