Phase One 645DF Mirror Lockup Problem

[malmac]

Hi All

I have had this happen a few times when shooting with the P65+ back on the DF - middle of photoshoot at wedding - crap!!

Now we have an IQ back, we have not had this problem to date.

Is the DF camera fantastic - well NO - but at least I signed up with Phase One cause, I can more easily use my Phase back with my tech camera (Cambo) and also the DF has a focal plane shutter (all be it, there is room for improvemnt in the working there of) and I feel confident that Phase One will bring out a new camera in the next year or so - and then I will be able to just move my back across and keep my DF as a spare body.

Well that is my take on the situation - I have been wrong before (just ask my wife), but that is why I persevere.


Cheers


mal

 

[WWLEE]

Over the course of this year I started with a new P65+ DB while waiting for my ordered IQ180, which I have now had for a couple months. With both backs on the same new Phase One DF body I have suffered numerous "freeze-ups" when the mirror lock-up with timer froze the camera and I had to disassemble it all (exact same scenario as described by others on this thread) to get it working again. It "seemed" more prevalent with the P65+ but I couldn't back that up with stats. However, it does seem to happen roughly once over the course of every shoot, and of course it does seem to always be at a pretty inopportune moment.

Guy, I think you mentioned that a Phase tech said not to use Eneloop batteries. That is what I use, so maybe changing batteries will solve the problem. Did he/she suggest what to look for in a battery to avoid this problem?

Thanks

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Yes over 2200 Mha.

Im using these now in everything

http://www.thomasdistributing.com/1...w-Discharge-Batteries_p_2449.html?frontpage=1

 

[multigary]

Graham,
Thank you for so clearly articulating this problem in your last post.
I have been enduring this situation in silence for the past two years, often
reaching for my Sony A900 in critical changing light to ensure reliability.
I truly hope, especially if enough users complain, that this thread can have
some impact on effecting a positive response from Phase One.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Now folks it would not hurt one bit to clean the battery holder contacts either. My theory is eliminate as many potential issues that you can find. It may have no relevance whatsoever except you get clean contacts. That can't be a bad thing either. I know sounds lame but anytime I run into stuff i always go through the process of elimination. I use ROR on just about everything.

Here is a link

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/64495-REG/ROR_RO212D_Residual_Oil_Remover.html

 

[Craig Stocks]

Guy - Those are the same batteries I'm using and obviously still having the problem.

As far as a new generation body - if Phase wants to swap bodies as a warranty repair to fix the problem then I'm all for it. But, I sure don't like the thought of having to buy a new body to work around a defect in the old one. To me, that's just rewarding bad design and poor service.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Guy - Those are the same batteries I'm using and obviously still having the problem.

As far as a new generation body - if Phase wants to swap bodies as a warranty repair to fix the problem then I'm all for it. But, I sure don't like the thought of having to buy a new body to work around a defect in the old one. To me, that's just rewarding bad design and poor service.

Totally agree. They should absolutely replace body with that serious a problem. Bodies will fail and normal repairs are expected. Yours is beyond that

 

[Guy Mancuso]

+1

Well said, Graham. I love the IQ180, but using it with the DF is a frustrating experience. And like you, I've owned every Nikon from the D1 to the D3s, and, in the past year, an H4D-40 and an H4D-50. None have had a problem of this magnitude. And Guy, this problem occurs with fully charged, high mAh batteries (I've tried several brands) and clean contacts (I use ROR). I've tried all the "home remedies". And having spent my life in the design of complex electronics and software for the telecom industry, I tend to agree with Graham that "what we have is an inherent unreliability in the camera/back interface where timing is concerned." I'd be interested in learning how often this problem occurs during the New Hampshire workshop.

Color me frustrated,

Joe

I'm on the case and I am relentless. :ROTFL:

 

[Jack]

I said this in the last thread that came up about it, and while the OP confirmed his body has a recent firmware, I want to reiterate that: the Back, Body AND Lenses need to have the current firmwares AND clean all the contact pins on your back, your body and your lenses. Then if you still have issues you can start to pinpoint issues and return the kit for warranty service. Your dealer should be able to help you get current firmware on everything, you can clean the pins with the sensor solution 2 and a Q-Tip. My bet is once everything is on a current firmware and clean, most of you will be fine.

To repeat what I wrote before, when I do use the DF body and IQ180 it is in MLU/Self-Timer mode 90% of the time. I had the DB issue a few times when my IQ180 first arrived, though I was using it in the rain and assumed it was shorting -- I worked around it and got by. I have since had the newest body and back FW's loaded and at least for me, the problem has disappeared. Of course I am now shooting the tech cam a lot more and the DF a lot less...

 

[GrahamWelland]

So how do you check that your lenses have current firmware? I can find out what firmware versions I have but I haven't seen anywhere with a list of what the latest version of lens firmware should be.

In my own case I can absolutely state that the body and back are at the very latest official release level. (DF: 1.23, IQ: 1.47). The lenses in question are either new Phase One lenses (2011) or are Mamiya lenses that have recently come back from service.

 

[Jack]

Graham, ask your dealer. You can find the lens FW by going to CF 98 (IIRC) on the DF body with the lens mounted and it will tell you that lens' FW. Does it happen with all of your lenses, or just some? As I said, if your FW's are all UTD, then I would return the kit with the lens(es) in question for service.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Okay I did chat with a Phase representative this morning after a e- mail that I sent out. Basically Phase is very aware of the self timer / mirror lock up issue and is working very aggressively on a update to fix this issue. As we have all said there is no consistenty here as sometimes it happens and sometimes it does not but it is affecting that combination of controls. It will come down to firmware and it should be handled in the near future. But be assured it is a priority and they are all over it. Given what I have seen Phase in action on previous issues I am sure this will get handled. I also think keeping up with all the firmware and cleaning of contacts is good advice regardless. Use the proper batteries with higher mHa as I did get a note from one of the techs on a body repair of mine.

So in short this is a problem all it's own that they are fully aware of and a fix is in the future.

 

[kdphotography]

I'm wondering if the mirror lock-up/no db issue is more related to a power (battery) issue.

There is no doubt in my mind that the DF body and the IQ series of MFDBs are substantially better with regard to power management/consumption issues. On the cameras bodies (going all the way back to the AF/AFD/Phase AF) I use primarily Energizer Lithium AAs, which I found simply perform better with regard to battery drain. I don't use rechargeables in my 645DF. I don't remove the battery carrier from the body, and leave my batteries in all the time.

Previous Phase MFDBs that I owned (P30, P45+ and P65+) slowly drained the rechargeable Phase battery when I left it in the back; there is a slight draw placed on the battery. My IQ180 does not exhibit this drain, or at least it is so very slight as to not be perceptible by me.

I have only had the "no db" error/lock-up happen to me one time (knocking on wood now). In retrospect, I suspect a power/low battery issue. The no db lock-up occured to me on the last part of my trip to the southwest this last summer. I did not start my trip with a fresh set of Energizer Lithium AAs in the DF; these were already well-used on several studio sessions and I simply brought another set of AAs with me.

No issue the first part of the trip to Monument Valley and Hunt's Mesa. Last part of the trip, the no db lock up occured in Page , AZ. I distinctly recall reaching in my bag and finding the DF body with the power switch left in the on position. I think this further diminshed the DF AA lithium batteries, the same set that I started the trip with. No db error---had to do a full hard boot: remove DF batteries, remove IQ180 batteries, remove MFDB, remove lens. Pause and reassemble.

Anyway, I think a good set of Energizer Lithium AAs (not rechargeables) as well as making sure batteries are fresh, may help remove yet another variable in the "no db/mirror-lock-up" problem.

ken

 

[Guy Mancuso]

The latest firmware dated In Sept. Was for the no DB issue. That should not appear now.

The MUP/ self timer is the current issue on the books to fix

 

[GrahamWelland]

Graham, ask your dealer. You can find the lens FW by going to CF 98 (IIRC) on the DF body with the lens mounted and it will tell you that lens' FW. Does it happen with all of your lenses, or just some? As I said, if your FW's are all UTD, then I would return the kit with the lens(es) in question for service.

Jack, all good points. At some point I can certainly correlate my lens firmware versions (although I'm not convinced on this one but I digress).

I can't speak for others but I do know for certain that I've had problems in the field at various times with my DF & Phase One 28D (new 2011), Mamiya 75-150D (Serviced 2011), Mamiya 210/4 ULD (new 2011) and Mamiya 300 APO (Serviced 2011). I can't be certain of my other Phase One glass (35D/45D/80D, 120 Macro - new motherboard & FW) because a scientific test of lenses vs bodies vs backs hasn't been done, especially given the random nature of the issue and the fact that the lineup has changed at times and some lenses haven't been used enough in the field to confirm. However, I'm sure that some other folks here have a much simpler line up and more consistent results ...

I suppose I could spend a day mindlessly clicking the camera waiting for the problem to possibly reproduce itself with each lens ... (the nature of the beast is that it'll hang in the field but not when you try to make it happen!).

 

[Guy Mancuso]

It's been suggest to use the electronic cable release instead of the self timer/mup for now.

 

[Jack]

Graham,

It appears there is still an issue with some combinations of backs and bodies -- I was not aware of this and thought the problem had been solved with the last FW updates for the body and back -- my apologies. I did have similar problems with a few of my lenses and older firmware, notably the 210, 75-150 and 105-210 zooms which all needed updating to work properly on my DF body.

 

[Kai Birkigt]

Just another mention for the list of users having this problem. I had it often with the DF and the P65+ and yes, it was really driving me nuts.

I never used the self timer/mup, I am always or pressing the release button or using the electronic cable release as I am shooting fashion/editorials and very rarely landscape.

Having the newest FW since last week, I will report about the behavior with the IQ180 after a certain time.

 

[johnnygoesdigital]

This is an interface issue with the DF, although, I'm not sure if this effects other "M" mount DB's, but IMO, a $4000+ Canon 1Ds, that works 100% of the time is much more valuable than a DF that doesn't

 

[multigary]

That's a good question, have Leaf back users had any of these lockup problems when using a DF body?