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Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.
- Thread starter fotografz
- Start date
It should have been but it is not.Bob,
Wasn't that a Moore quote?
-bob
Steve Hendrix
Well-known member
IMO, this demonstrates that you just don't get it. All the rest of your post is tit-for-tat and we go on forever. Frankly, I don't care at all who is sales leader in anything. That has never once been my criteria for selecting anything.
The argument is FOR ME and my applications and what works FOR ME. There is no "universal best" as you keep wanting to hard sell. There is what is best for each shooter. That may be like Shelby with his RZ and Leaf back which is still a "magic" combo for producing his style of work. I still am of the opinion that the Hasselblad CFV/16 and 203FE combination produced images that I rarely see aesthetically equalled by mega $$$ backs from all the makers. Which is why I did not continue on to the CFV/39 or 50 because it didn't translate the same. It is an artistic evaluation not some quantifiable chart.
I think the whole arena has become the "Emperors New Clothes" where a minuscule few need anything near what is now being made, but to keep the juggernaut moving it must be marketed to the many.
Frankly, I'm not married to any of this stuff ... including Hasselblad. Had I been entering the arena of MFD today, given where the market for photography has gone, the last system I'd buy into is Phase One, and most likely not Hasselblad either. I should have stopped with the RZ and 33 meg Leaf 75s that one of my favorite photographers now owns ... and who would have guessed that Leica would produce a ground-up camera that makes them all seem like dinosaurs roaring about how dominate they are ... until they suddenly aren't around anymore
-Marc
Marc -
I think we're abusing the thread at this point and it's becoming more about you and me. I say that because for whatever reason you have scorpions in your pants about my statement that Phase has always been ahead of Hasselblad on the digital back end and would likely continue, while Hasselblad has been ahead on the camera side. But you continue to mischaracterize my words into some sort of ridiculous mandate for THE BEST. You started the laundry list of tit for tat ("Phase never had a 50MP", you said). In every industry, there is a market leader, and I said when it came to the back end, Phase One has always been ahead of Hasselblad. You say no, but even on the completely elementary level of they have always had new sensors to market ahead of Hassleblad, you probably can't abide my statement, so ok - forget I said it - I withdraw the statement! The fact of whether it is true or not doesn't matter. Can we agree that it doesn't matter? Because as far as what I recommend to a client is concerned, it doesn't.
Today I spent 8 hours in the (hot) sun shooting P45+, P65+, IQ180, and Arca Swiss RM3Di and a client. Throughout the day the discussion surrounded the differences, advantages and disadvantages for how this client shoots with the digital backs and also the RM3Di discussed in context of the Cambo WRS. Nothing was "best". So, please, stop making such a flipping big deal out of my little remark. I am hard selling "best"? Your innuendos about me create the impression you have no idea who I am. There are many people here who know who I am. Please stop twisting my words. I actually just went back to my original post and all I said was I didn't see Hassleblad catching Phase One on the back end. Just my opinion.
Thierry - your correction is appreciated, but it is not a correction, since I only stated that Phase One has always been to market with new sensors before Imacon/Hasselblad. I was actually employed by Sinar at the time Sinar had a short time exclusive on the Kodak 22MP sensor. Initially, Phase One's response was that they would match it with a 22MP Dalsa version, but between then and the release date, that changed and it wound up Kodak. Yes, Sinar was first.
Also, before I joined Sinar, I was employed by Imacon, and Imacon had purchased ColorCrisp I think a year or two before the Sinar 22MP was announced, so yes, there was a digital back division that offered 6MP ad 11MP multishot products (the old Carnival backs).
Steve Hendrix
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Steve Hendrix
Well-known member
Steve Hendrix
Well-known member
True. Regardless, there is often a "generally acknowledged" market leader. This is reflected sometimes in sales numbers, and sometimes product benefits, and sometimes a combination of the two. This does not mean the product is the best or even seen as the best by all, and by all for all purposes for which the product is designed. The Hasselblad H camera has held this general position since its introduction.
We still sell a significant portion of digital backs made for Contax 645 cameras. Phase One DF cameras are not generally acknowledged as the market leader. And yet, they have sold a great number of these systems. Consumers never completely discount all other products even in the environment where there is a perceived market leader. Some element of those non-market leaders will answer some need or desire that the perceived market leader does not.
Even the Yugo produced decent sales numbers until it became apparent you'd quickly end up upside down (both figuratively and literally) from repairs/reliability issues.
Steve Hendrix
Steve, it isn't about you and me, except in your own competitive head. You really should open up to other perspectives whether you like them or not. And to be clear, I do not care if you like me or what I have to say ... but it is a different perspective that I know I am not alone in feeling.
Instead you on keep trying to prove your point with statistics, history lessons and sales speak.
Let me take Hasselblad out of the equation ... NO MAKER is the leader to everyone, not Hasselblad, Phase One or anyone. The dominate force in photography is the photographer, not the maker of tools for the photographer. We would make photos whether Phase, Hassey or any of the current crew was around or not. I'm sure we are all glad they are, but it is just a bunch of different tools that depend on the hands they are in.
IMO, all of this has created a cult of gear that has put the horse before the cart, and while some of it is good, to much is ... well, just to much.
As to the original message, this was about Hasselblad offering up a new open-platform camera, which was turned into a pitch for Phase One always being ahead of everyone else on the back-end. Not every post has to be a Phase One opportunity to push the cool aid you know.
-Marc
stephengilbert
Active member
"Might I suggest you two take this offline and work it out?"
Maybe more than a suggestion is required. Or at least a time limit: all other sporting events have an end.
Maybe more than a suggestion is required. Or at least a time limit: all other sporting events have an end.
PSon
Active member
I still own two of the Sinar 54H to this day and it is still one of my favorite digital back of all time. In fact, I visited another studio who was using the newer version of the Sinar multishot back and was having problem with the color casting. Keep in mind that the 54H was the last Kodak chip that Sinar used on their back. In fact, my first 54H came from Steve Hendrix. I have to say in my lifetime experience with photography, I have learned from many of you here and elsewhere. It is with great pain for me to see many of you disagree over trivial matters. Many of us struggle in these time, and this forum has provided many great benefits to the members and viewers. Whether I agree with all the principles of this forum or not, I find this forum to be a favorite place to hang out due to its uniqueness in diversity from regular members to dealers. I like to thanks all of you for providing many great valuable informations to many folks including myself. I like to view all of you as positive contributors not only here but in many other places before GetDPI was developed. To name a few of you: Guy, Jack, Marc, Steve Gilbert, Steve Hendrix, PeterA, Doug, Yair, Thierry, Paul Slotboom, David and so many others.
Thanks
Son
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Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Thanks Son
I thought that American football went on forever.:deadhorse:
stephengilbert
Active member
"I thought that American football went on forever."
As opposed to soccer, which only seems to go on forever? (There is a 60 minute time limit to football, but they keep stopping the clock. That allows more TV commercials.)
As opposed to soccer, which only seems to go on forever? (There is a 60 minute time limit to football, but they keep stopping the clock. That allows more TV commercials.)
GrahamWelland
Subscriber & Workshop Member
EVEN test cricket is more interesting than a slugfest
- and that's saying something coming from an Englishman who despises cricket even more than soccer - sorry - my English DNA must be broken.If the Hassy announcement causes some reaction at Phase One then it has to be a good thing. Viva the competition!
Ed Hurst
Well-known member
In the interest of lightening the mood (and making a jolly good point too), here is a rather relevant point made very cogently:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sD_8prYOxo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sD_8prYOxo
Done.
