johnnygoesdigital
New member
+1 for Graham's comment.
These responses from CI, has really generated interest in the Hasselblad announcement.
These responses from CI, has really generated interest in the Hasselblad announcement.
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Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.
- Thread starter fotografz
- Start date
Steve Hendrix
Well-known member
LoweP -
Sorry we put you through this to get you motivated. I hope your next motivation is more pleasant and constructive.
Everyone - I am sorry for Marc and I spiraling out of control. Unnecessary, and I think in both cases, we ended up presenting ourselves in a way that doesn't reflect who we really are, and doesn't benefit the greater good of this forum.
Marc and I have known each other for years in a very positive way, and we will work this out offline and spare everybody so things get back to normal, and everyone's valuable time isn't wasted.
Back to your normal - and hopefully more relevant - programming.
Steve Hendrix
David Schneider
New member
Lyndon Johnson said something like "When two people agree on everything only one of them is doing the thinking." So I kind of enjoy the debate. Certainly more entertaining than the Republican debates.
Just wanted to add that there's certainly a vocal minority of photographers who are quite technically oriented and constantly purchasing gear that gives them the ultimate quality for their images. I have learned from you all because I'm not one of you.
I'm part of the market segment that just wants better quality images (especially for my clients who want large wall portraits, but also for that inner photographer/craftsman in me) than I can get from a dslr. That means I'm in the "lower" pricing tier of the mf market (meaning my mf gear is worth more than 2 out of the 3 cars in my family). That's a pretty large potential market and we don't really care all that much what brand of camera gets us that better quality because all mf brands will. If this new Hassie X body helps out in the "low" end, I'm for it. If it means some people with an H4d move to it and there's a few well priced used H4d's available, I'm for it. If not, I'm not sure I care too much and only follow to keep up with what's happening in the industry.
This decison of Hasselblad's has no bearing on me personally (though in the long term, it may help with the resale value of my IQ back) as I sold out of my 20+ year use of Hasselblad and went with a DF and Alpa system a year or so a go.
However, many of my peers are heavily invested in Blad glass and will be glad for the existence of this option. Hooray to Hasselblad.
What I don't understand is why existing H3 and H4 customers remain locked out. It would appear that the "unlock" is a firmware tweak, and if this is true, then I'd imagine there's going to be some pretty pissed off H3 and H4 users out there as they get to back upgrade time. I just don't understand why any company would want to leave that bitter taste in the mouth of its existing customers. Kinda like being second-class citizens in the nation of Hasselblad users.
However, many of my peers are heavily invested in Blad glass and will be glad for the existence of this option. Hooray to Hasselblad.
What I don't understand is why existing H3 and H4 customers remain locked out. It would appear that the "unlock" is a firmware tweak, and if this is true, then I'd imagine there's going to be some pretty pissed off H3 and H4 users out there as they get to back upgrade time. I just don't understand why any company would want to leave that bitter taste in the mouth of its existing customers. Kinda like being second-class citizens in the nation of Hasselblad users.
Have they come out and stated this? I didn't think there had been an official announcement yet, has there?
David Grover / Phase One
New member
Hey Bryan,
There is no benefit to an H4D owner wanting to buy an H4x body.
H4D and H3D owners have always had access to buying a spare body for backup.
David
That fact isn't well known David, and it should also be said that it requires sending in your current kit to do it, at least that's how I understand it. It's not a matter of getting a second body and slapping your current back on it.
Regarding the H4X, as a Hasselblad Owner, I'm going to have to disagree with you.
Owners of a H3D or H3D-II have to upgrade the entire kit just to get the benefits of the H4D body ... where any Phase or Leaf user with a H1/2 can now do it. There are a lot of folks out there that are either satisfied with their H3D/H3D-II 31 and 39 backs, or can't hack a total kit upgrade financially, but would like the option to get the H4D benefits like TF.
Plus, isn't the H3D and H3D-II out of production? Can an owner still purchase a spare H3D/H3D-II, and how much would that cost given that you have to send it in to be matched? Seems it would be prohibitive given that you aren't upgrading anything, just getting a spare older tech body as a back-up.
Individual H4D owners may well be okay as is, but if a studio uses a couple of brands of backs like a H4D/40 and a H2 with a Phase One P65+ for example, it would seem advantageous to be able to use either back on a H4X ... like if the H4D body went down, or the P65+ went down.
Personally, I think it's a mistake excluding loyal Hasselblad owners from this offering.
-Marc
David Grover / Phase One
New member
Hi Marc,
Thanks for the comments. Ill put it back to the management so they are aware.
As it stands now, the H4x is designed as an upgrade for existing H1/H2 owners to keep their bodies working well for them.
Yes, you can still purchase additional bodies. Your existing system is sent in so both bodies have the same calibration, this is what you paid for afterall.
The H3D platform is still a superior integrated system, even without the True Focus feature.
Website is now live..
http://www.hasselblad.com/H4x
Have a look at the Q&A for more answers.
David
Thanks for the comments. Ill put it back to the management so they are aware.
As it stands now, the H4x is designed as an upgrade for existing H1/H2 owners to keep their bodies working well for them.
Yes, you can still purchase additional bodies. Your existing system is sent in so both bodies have the same calibration, this is what you paid for afterall.
The H3D platform is still a superior integrated system, even without the True Focus feature.
Website is now live..
http://www.hasselblad.com/H4x
Have a look at the Q&A for more answers.
David
I am irritated that my gently used two-year-old H2F has probably plummeted in resale value due to the H4x announcement. It doesn't appear Hassey is going to continue the CF line, and I don't want to trade in my H2F plus $4-5K to be able to upgrade my digital back one or two years down the road.
That's all very sweet David, but what about those who expect to update and upgrade their backs regularly?
Since starting with MFDB back in 1995, I've upgraded my back about once every 3.5 years. Each time I do that, I go to the market and see what I consider the best available at the time. I've had LEAF, Phase One and Kodak backs at various points, always on Blads until recently. Many of my peers, who are heavily invested in Blad glass and would like to stay with it, are at the point where they are ready to replace their backs with the one I currently use, but alas, they have H3 and H4 bodies.
From a business owners perspective, the back and the glass is the biggest factor, both in cost and in impact on image quality.
Unless you are about to unveil some new backs to directly compete with or surpass the current state-of-the -art backs, this is going to be a bone of contention for some.
Graham Mitchell
New member
Of course there is - it means they can run down to the local rental shop to hire a Phase back as a backup, if their Hasselblad back goes down. Or they might want to upgrade to an IQ180 or some other back, or they might appreciate getting more for their camera when they sell it (an open camera should be worth more than a closed one). I will wait for official announcement, but it seems bizarre that existing users would be penalized like this.
David Grover / Phase One
New member
Bryan,
There is no such thing as an H3 or H4 body. The H3D and H4D were sold as complete camera systems.
We can also argue wether we or a competitor already have the "state of the art offering" but that has also been discussed to death already.
I could of course assume you mean the H4D200MS?
David
David Grover / Phase One
New member
Graham,
They could also run down to the rental shop and hire an H4D(!) or a Phase 645DF and IQ?
If they do want to upgrade to IQ180 or shock horror(!) another Hasselblad product the upgrade programs from both our companies would still allow that. It really is not an influence.
What we are talking about here is an upgrade path for our existing H1/H2 users.
There are also similar paths for existing H1/2/3/4D users as well.
David
Care to comment, David Grover?
Do you really want to open this can of worms? I had the grace not to mention the name of the back I consider the best for the type of work I do.
Yes, the H4D200MS is a fabulous back if you are happy to shoot nothing that moves even microscopically. This is an awesome tool for some kinds of imaging. As a general purpose single capture back? No comment.
I'd say a H4x with an IQ180 on the back looks pretty state-of -the-art though. Good on you Hasselblad.
But then that's just one measly career photographers view and I've already said I don't count as I use a DF platform and an ALPA. I'm very interested in what the users of those 'complete MF camera systems' think. One of them told me this morning that for him the acronym "MF" in the previous sentence represents two very different words these days.
There is no such thing as a H3 or H4 body? I'm sure that's cold comfort to all your customers out there running Complete H3 and H4 Camera Systems. Naturally, they were all told about the upgrade ramifications of the Completeness of these systems at the time of purchase, right?:angel:
Graham Mitchell
New member
Perhaps I'm missing something so I'd appreciate if you could clarify this. I assumed (as many have, I think) that the H4x is basically an H4 camera with different firmware which allows the use of third party backs. Is that not the case? If it is the case, then why would any H4 owner trade in his camera for an H4x rather than just updating the firmware?
David Grover / Phase One
New member
An H4 Owner would not trade in their H4 Graham.
The H4x is for H1/2 customers.
Really David? I'm sure my dear friend Tareq , a member here and an up-and-coming professional in the United Arab Emirates, would love to hear about it. He's passionate about his gear and loves to be up to date.
He'd love to hear about the upgrade path for his H4D60......
Please share...