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RED Epic - better than the IQ180 ?

Thierry

New member
+1

Thierry

No you're not.

It's a nice image, but the fanboy comments based on a small JPEG are a bit of a joke. You could get the same result with most $1K SLRs after the same 'grading' and tone mapping. Calling it a Phase-beater because they stitched enough images together to beat it is pointless. Any Canikon user could claim the same. It's still not giving you that much resolution in one shot mode (14MP?) That's fantastic for video, obviously. They also don't mention what kind of exposure controls you have. Can you make a 30 second exposure with it? 1/4000th? Can you shoot stills at all or do you have to pull a frame from video? If so, can you shoot stills tethered? I doubt it. Can you even use flash with it? Too many things are missing to make this a serious stills tool. A bit like oohing and aahing over a Canon 5Dii as a video camera - it can pull off some neat tricks but it's fairly limited.
 

yaya

Active member
One thing that will get me excited is if such an image could be created in the same way the little Sony Sweep Panoramic cameras do it, which I don't believe the RED can....

Perhaps that's what their Alchemy thing does?

If you have to shoot many 14MP stills and stitch them, or moreover if you shoot video and then have to manually pick the frames for stitching then I'd rather use a good DSLR or an MF or a tech camera with a high-res DB.

An IQ180 using sensor+ (20MP @800iso) and a good WA lens (Canon 24 TS/E-II? Rodenstock 23mm?) will probably only need 3 horizontal panned frames to yield a bigger file and possibly better IQ at a fraction of the time: You'll be doing it tethered and have the 3 frames stitched in PS as you go...nothing fancy and plenty of time left to go downstairs and enjoy the buffet or the casino...

But this is all theory and will likely stay there...in true RED style....

Yair
 

goesbang

Member
I read the thread about the Epic being "Better than and IQ180" over breakfast yesterday. It was quite some time before I could pick myself off the floor following the fit of uncontrollable laughter that ensued.
Why bother making claims like this without giving us some specifics about what criteria the claim is based on? Graham Mitchell is spot-on in his earlier post.
I am absolutely certain the Red is better than the Iq180 at shooting MOTION. On any stills related claims, I'd like to see some specifics. This kind of headline-grabbing marketing stunt is not at all helpful. I'm happy to stick with my "inferior" IQ180 and Aptus 12 backs on my Alpa STC, shooting through the Coke-bottle optics of a Rodenstock 23HR.
I'm not sure how I'm going to face the awful raw files, now that I've seen the amazing Red......:)
{walks off shaking head and muttering}
 

Thierry

New member
:)

+1

Thierry

I read the thread about the Epic being "Better than and IQ180" over breakfast yesterday. It was quite some time before I could pick myself off the floor following the fit of uncontrollable laughter that ensued.
Why bother making claims like this without giving us some specifics about what criteria the claim is based on? Graham Mitchell is spot-on in his earlier post.
I am absolutely certain the Red is better than the Iq180 at shooting MOTION. On any stills related claims, I'd like to see some specifics. This kind of headline-grabbing marketing stunt is not at all helpful. I'm happy to stick with my "inferior" IQ180 and Aptus 12 backs on my Alpa STC, shooting through the Coke-bottle optics of a Rodenstock 23HR.
I'm not sure how I'm going to face the awful raw files, now that I've seen the amazing Red......:)
{walks off shaking head and muttering}
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
+2

Misleading info really bugs me. I'm sure RED is great for its intended purpose but over inflating a product leads people in the wrong direction.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
I don't do photography to "get the shot," although I do that. I do photography for the insights and pleasure it gives me. So I am sure I could get a RED or a Lytro camera and they will take all the pictures I need or all the points of focus in any scene, but simply playing editor/art director is not why I am behind a camera.

I think the development in camera technology is great. It really presents new options for photographers. But the single most important element in making great images is not the gear (don't shoot the messenger). Neither is it resolving power. And so while these innovative companies keep supply tools for us, they are just tools. If the carpenter is lousy, you are not going to end up with a well-made house no matter how good the hammer is.

BTW, I stitch 40 MP images together into panos and print them up to 12 feet. I am not sure what good more resolution is going to do for me when most of the folks looking at the images can't see or notice the all the detail in them now.
 

yaya

Active member
We'll I've registered on the reduser forum....I've got a few questions to ask about that image although I'm not holding my breath for straightforward answers...

You have to wait for admin's approval...will see how it goes:)
 

JSK Rangefinder

New member
is Russell James member here..? I'd like to here his opinion on it..

that image looks good.. obviously, it can be done with almost any camera.. but I guess the point is not with any FILM Camera..
 

JSK Rangefinder

New member
So I could not use a large-format film camera (or any film camera), scan and stitch the frames? Technology is not a replacement for imagination and creativity of the photographer.
I mean FILM in terms of MOTION Cameras.. since RED is obviously motion camera..
 

yaya

Active member
Can we then consider a 5DMkII or a D7000 to be motion cameras? Can they not produce a similar (or better) result from a set of stitched still frames?

Like I said if the EPIC can do a sweep+pan stitch like to Sony P&S then I'll be really excited, otherwise...
 

JSK Rangefinder

New member
Can we then consider a 5DMkII or a D7000 to be motion cameras? Can they not produce a similar (or better) result from a set of stitched still frames?

Like I said if the EPIC can do a sweep+pan stitch like to Sony P&S then I'll be really excited, otherwise...

I think amount and the assortment of work done with 5DMkII worldwide speak for itself..

However, I don't consider 5DMkII nor D7000 as motion cameras.. to me, they are simply photo cameras with ability to shoot video and even then once 5DMkII is setup to shoot any JOB/serious video 5DMkII doesn't appear to look like 5DMkII anymore, it looks more like 5DMkII on STEROIDS.. Software does the rest in terms of the look, feel, etc..

with RED.. their prime focus is on Motion with ability to have/pick top quality stills.. Ergonomically even the smallest Red camera is still heavy, bulky camera once it's up and running.. I can't imagine members here walking alone with it trying to setup a shot.. perhaps ART/Architecture/etc. obviously, it can be done but its painful process as far as I am concerned..


5DMkII
______ Top Quality Stills
______ so & so Video
______ Cheap compared to RED
______ easy to handle if not on steroids :))

VS.

RED
______ Top Quality Video
______ Top Quality Stills
______ Fortune compared to 5DMkII
______ steroids required :))

so there alone you have substantial difference..

personally, I support the idea of our industry moving into both directions as far as the same package can do both.. but for now, I strongly prefer separate cameras for each job..

at the end of the day.. the point is who can produce better image not a bigger one.. ;)
 

gerald.d

Well-known member
Sorry for the bump, but since it's a thread about shooting panos with a Red Epic...



;)

(Just happened to have the two together in the same room. Don't worry - I'll be shooting panos with the P65+ when it arrives!)

/edit

Just to address this:

One thing that will get me excited is if such an image could be created in the same way the little Sony Sweep Panoramic cameras do it, which I don't believe the RED can....

Perhaps that's what their Alchemy thing does?

If you have to shoot many 14MP stills and stitch them, or moreover if you shoot video and then have to manually pick the frames for stitching then I'd rather use a good DSLR or an MF or a tech camera with a high-res DB.

<snip>

Yair
Current pano software can actually do the former - it can take a video feed, and then stitch from individual video frames. Haven't tried this with footage from an Epic yet, but hope to try it out in the next month or so.

What you can do is set the Epic on 1fps, and then program your pano head (VR Drive in this case) to pan at the right speed so that the Epic is firing at the right time to give you overlapping shots.

In the test pano that we shot with this rig last week though, we just left the Epic running at 24fps, and then extracted a shot from each position that the head landed in. End result was just short of a gigapixel.

What I will say is that the quality of the still images from the Red was very, very impressive indeed. I look forward to doing a comparative test between it and the P65+ hopefully in the 2nd quarter of the year. I will be astonished if the Red beats the PhaseOne though.
 
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