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Future Medium Format Camera
- Thread starter Stefan Steib
- Start date
PeterA
Well-known member
IF we had ( real) live view on an IPAD type device THIS could make up for the tiny sensor sizes versus large print size capability of the current (MF digi chips and cameras ) - it is very frustrating ( to me) to have LF film resolution tonality capability via the digi chips - but a very very limited (in real world) ability to make use of multiple combined movements EASILY
People that shoot dead on or just are happy with rise or fall are well served..me I want to be able to control the plane of focus and depth of field for still life work and portraiture - ie make photographs which are more than just subject - I am interested in the creative side of making something different using movements - and I want to be able to experiment quickly in real time.
I don't care (much) about higher ISO or better DR or more megapixels - I just want the digi chip to be able to provide all the benefits it does now- but also the creative flexibility that large format or even super large format film based cameras did in terms of control of pane of focus - hence the need for a LIVE VIEW capability - I'd be happy with the quality that Sony provides today in its toy cameras like the NEX *** far as live view capability goes.
too much to ask for?
People that shoot dead on or just are happy with rise or fall are well served..me I want to be able to control the plane of focus and depth of field for still life work and portraiture - ie make photographs which are more than just subject - I am interested in the creative side of making something different using movements - and I want to be able to experiment quickly in real time.
I don't care (much) about higher ISO or better DR or more megapixels - I just want the digi chip to be able to provide all the benefits it does now- but also the creative flexibility that large format or even super large format film based cameras did in terms of control of pane of focus - hence the need for a LIVE VIEW capability - I'd be happy with the quality that Sony provides today in its toy cameras like the NEX *** far as live view capability goes.
too much to ask for?
V
Vivek
Guest
Not at all much to ask for. Particularly, when just a digital back costs this.
But, with live-view, the manufacturers and sellers can not be touting the need for very high tolerances and precision as the reason for the price while selling antique technology zone focus cams.
But, with live-view, the manufacturers and sellers can not be touting the need for very high tolerances and precision as the reason for the price while selling antique technology zone focus cams.
Stefan Steib
Active member
Peter
I think the focus layer/indicator in the new Nex is one of the top features.
This should be of huge advantage when using this on a viewcamera device .
I am certainly looking into getting a Cambo X2 to put a Nex 7 on it for testing. This may be a real killer combo - not for wideange probably , but as a studio combo for anyday catalogue usage.
that said- it should be totally possible to go the creative path with it too !
greetings from Munich
Stefan
I think the focus layer/indicator in the new Nex is one of the top features.
This should be of huge advantage when using this on a viewcamera device .
I am certainly looking into getting a Cambo X2 to put a Nex 7 on it for testing. This may be a real killer combo - not for wideange probably , but as a studio combo for anyday catalogue usage.
that said- it should be totally possible to go the creative path with it too !
greetings from Munich
Stefan
Edwin is turned on, and he is the obvious choice for UK importer... I would like to work with him.
To use or sell this you do not have to be like me... a mechanical and electronic engineer and real-time computer programmer with experience with view cameras.
Cars, and everything else is getting more complicated... and soon this will be that camera of choice for product photography.
It is very much easier to operate than a traditional view camera.
To use or sell this you do not have to be like me... a mechanical and electronic engineer and real-time computer programmer with experience with view cameras.
Cars, and everything else is getting more complicated... and soon this will be that camera of choice for product photography.
It is very much easier to operate than a traditional view camera.
Stefan Steib
Active member
Dick
you are right, actually once the movements are preprogrammed into the iPad it is very easy to use. But I can remember the shocked looks of the people who look at this the first time. Been on the Photokina on the Schneider booth for some hours and also in Italy on the PK Trade show in Venice where I was also showcasing our HCam , talking with Charlie and Rolf for 2 days.
the break is in the heads of the people. They need to jump out of their own shadow, which actually is not so simple. Charlies brain is working like the one of a 20 year old, totally fresh and always asking how things can be done better and he has no restrictions for this. In his age this is amazing !
I don´t know many people like him, very inspiring.....
greetings from Munich
Stefan
you are right, actually once the movements are preprogrammed into the iPad it is very easy to use. But I can remember the shocked looks of the people who look at this the first time. Been on the Photokina on the Schneider booth for some hours and also in Italy on the PK Trade show in Venice where I was also showcasing our HCam , talking with Charlie and Rolf for 2 days.
the break is in the heads of the people. They need to jump out of their own shadow, which actually is not so simple. Charlies brain is working like the one of a 20 year old, totally fresh and always asking how things can be done better and he has no restrictions for this. In his age this is amazing !
I don´t know many people like him, very inspiring.....
greetings from Munich
Stefan
I have hoped for faster and more accurate auto focus for quite some time. The rationale for the fact that the engineers currently designing medium format lenses have utterly failed to keep pace with those at Nikon and Canon in this area utterly escapes me. Some have offered as an excuse the fact that for a given focal length, medium format lenses are larger than their 35mm based counterparts and subsequently have heavier bits of glass to move, but experience with the Nikon 600 f/4 and 200 f2 belies that argument.
As much as I would like to make the move to MFD, until I am satisfied that I can capture my subjects, which tend to move about quite unpredictably, reliably and consistently, I am afraid that I am stuck with my small format gear...but I do continue to look over here and dream.
As much as I would like to make the move to MFD, until I am satisfied that I can capture my subjects, which tend to move about quite unpredictably, reliably and consistently, I am afraid that I am stuck with my small format gear...but I do continue to look over here and dream.
wentbackward
Member
60MP (per channel), 5x4 instant capture 16 bit sensor. Fits a graflok adapter. Live view with focus peak as Sony NEX does. 5 additional stops of dynamic range highlight buffering to create a shoulder, not a cut off. No lines when using high contrast/HDR
A range finder with a sensor roughly 50 mm x 70 mm with a 7 micron pixel size, approximately 45 MP, a small range of dedicated lenses, from 40 mm-300mm. Adjustible range finder but in addition live view for precise focus. I would expect for the entire rig it would be in the USD 40K range, I would expect a good weather seal and build quality, high ISO 6400+ and huge DR. I would like to add I have a rich interior life. Joe
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L
Landshark
Guest
A MF that will last through an entire summer of shooting, just tired of the breakdowns
Stefan Steib
Active member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIM0Rr5cKls&feature=youtu.be
The chip is still (comparably) small (12Mpix), it´s not even called a camera (it´s a phone) but the concept shows where we will be mainstream in 5-10 years from now with at least Semi-Pro equipment (yes I´m serious!).
It´s all about connectivity, usability and immediate access.
Of course we need more resolution, better and more versatile lenses, but this shows the way.
It´s a Sony........
Greetings from Munich
Stefan
The chip is still (comparably) small (12Mpix), it´s not even called a camera (it´s a phone) but the concept shows where we will be mainstream in 5-10 years from now with at least Semi-Pro equipment (yes I´m serious!).
It´s all about connectivity, usability and immediate access.
Of course we need more resolution, better and more versatile lenses, but this shows the way.
It´s a Sony........
Greetings from Munich
Stefan
Stefan Steib
Active member
I think Sinar is the only manufacturer of reliable digital backs, suitable for heavy usage, like macro catalog work.
What would I like in a future MFD?
1) Generally, I do wish that each company offered alternative bodies that provide for broader applications. Like a smaller non-modular body with faster AF, Image Stabilization, and higher ISO that uses our existing lenses and accessories, ... so we don't have to maintain a separate 35mm system/lenses/accessories. Plus, it would be the back-up.
This could be the CMOS version BTW, and have all the Do-Dads we use in our 35mm cameras. A larger than 35mm sensor with a 3:4 ratio would be fine ... Anything to keep the camera smaller but have a bigger sensor than 35mm.
2) More sensitive AF ... use light amplification technology or something, but make it more sensitive without losing precision and accuracy. I think these cameras focus fast enough when they acquire focus, they just need to acquire it faster, especially in lower contrast conditions.
3) Get rid of the shutter if at all possible. Activate electronically or something.
4) offer a software/firmware sensitivity option. ISO 10 to 500, or 500 to 2000. Load what is needed for a specific task and go do it. (I'd kill for ISO 10 in the studio at times.)
What I Don't want, need or want to pay for is ...
1) I do not need multiple AF points ... people keep comparing to 35mm none of which reach out to the edges, and arrays like in the new Nikon D4 are still packed around the center ... on a large area MFD, that center array would be semi-useless. I DO wish I had True Focus in my S2, and Sony A900. For continuous AF see #1 above.
2) Just Say No To Video. See #1 above ... another camera might be be okay, but don't put it in the big gun. Pulling stills from a large sensor RED camera is different from adding motion to an existing MFD system. Those that shoot motion rent almost everything ... and the whole infrastructure and tool box is totally different, as is the skill/talent(s) required ... at least for commercial applications it is. If a production house shoots so much motion that they own their camera, they'll own a RED or some other dedicated motion camera.
3) No More Meg-a-Pickles. 60 or 80 meg is more than enough. Improve the quality not the quantity. How many pixels can dance on the head of a pin?
P.S., Not sure what you guys are doing to your poor MFDs, maybe they're ill treated rentals or something.
I've pounded through day-after-day of studio still life work during my busy season shooting GM dealer materials like wheels and fabrics
sleep006: but it pays the bills), and haven't had one shut-down/breakdown in two years now. I've also dragged MFD to a number of weddings and shot continuously for 8 hours, sometimes in horrible heat and humidity ... 500+ images without a hiccup ... I might break down in those conditions, but my camera hasn't
I think Guy pounds out more images a day than I do ... don't recall him complaining.
1) Generally, I do wish that each company offered alternative bodies that provide for broader applications. Like a smaller non-modular body with faster AF, Image Stabilization, and higher ISO that uses our existing lenses and accessories, ... so we don't have to maintain a separate 35mm system/lenses/accessories. Plus, it would be the back-up.
This could be the CMOS version BTW, and have all the Do-Dads we use in our 35mm cameras. A larger than 35mm sensor with a 3:4 ratio would be fine ... Anything to keep the camera smaller but have a bigger sensor than 35mm.
2) More sensitive AF ... use light amplification technology or something, but make it more sensitive without losing precision and accuracy. I think these cameras focus fast enough when they acquire focus, they just need to acquire it faster, especially in lower contrast conditions.
3) Get rid of the shutter if at all possible. Activate electronically or something.
4) offer a software/firmware sensitivity option. ISO 10 to 500, or 500 to 2000. Load what is needed for a specific task and go do it. (I'd kill for ISO 10 in the studio at times.)
What I Don't want, need or want to pay for is ...
1) I do not need multiple AF points ... people keep comparing to 35mm none of which reach out to the edges, and arrays like in the new Nikon D4 are still packed around the center ... on a large area MFD, that center array would be semi-useless. I DO wish I had True Focus in my S2, and Sony A900. For continuous AF see #1 above.
2) Just Say No To Video. See #1 above ... another camera might be be okay, but don't put it in the big gun. Pulling stills from a large sensor RED camera is different from adding motion to an existing MFD system. Those that shoot motion rent almost everything ... and the whole infrastructure and tool box is totally different, as is the skill/talent(s) required ... at least for commercial applications it is. If a production house shoots so much motion that they own their camera, they'll own a RED or some other dedicated motion camera.
3) No More Meg-a-Pickles. 60 or 80 meg is more than enough. Improve the quality not the quantity. How many pixels can dance on the head of a pin?
P.S., Not sure what you guys are doing to your poor MFDs, maybe they're ill treated rentals or something.
I've pounded through day-after-day of studio still life work during my busy season shooting GM dealer materials like wheels and fabrics
sleep006: but it pays the bills), and haven't had one shut-down/breakdown in two years now. I've also dragged MFD to a number of weddings and shot continuously for 8 hours, sometimes in horrible heat and humidity ... 500+ images without a hiccup ... I might break down in those conditions, but my camera hasn't I think Guy pounds out more images a day than I do ... don't recall him complaining.
Stefan Steib
Active member
And here comes the next feature that I want - again it is an idea by Canon:
Patent – Short Range Wireless Lens Mount & Other Accessories
http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/01/patent-short-range-wireless-lens-mount-other-accessories/
Cool idea - no more contact problems, unlimited digital communication between components, standardized interface and protocol.
***** !
This is what I mean when I say cameras need to evolve into real digital devices.
Greetings from Munich
Stefan
Patent – Short Range Wireless Lens Mount & Other Accessories
http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/01/patent-short-range-wireless-lens-mount-other-accessories/
Cool idea - no more contact problems, unlimited digital communication between components, standardized interface and protocol.
***** !
This is what I mean when I say cameras need to evolve into real digital devices.
Greetings from Munich
Stefan
It would not be difficult to make it more reliable than contacts, and less medically damaging than a mobile phone.
¿Does any one else remember (or use) battery-free cameras?
Perhaps we could use our flash brollies to collect sunlight for a photo electric cell?
V
Vivek
Guest
Stefan Steib
Active member
Thanks Vivek for this link!
It shows that we need to understand that there will be no standstill in Devellopment, Pandoras Ghost is out of the Box and the ideas will now create new camera devices that will be eyeopening for us, in every aspect.
Greetings from Munich
Stefan
It shows that we need to understand that there will be no standstill in Devellopment, Pandoras Ghost is out of the Box and the ideas will now create new camera devices that will be eyeopening for us, in every aspect.
Greetings from Munich
Stefan
Stefan Steib
Active member
And here is even more - imagine Autofocus as fast as the human eye:
http://vimeo.com/34899646
regards
Stefan
http://vimeo.com/34899646
regards
Stefan
