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Problem: IQ180 below -4 deg. Celsius

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Gerhard

Guest
Dear forum,

my first post here but I have been a passive reader since several years.

My main business is architecture photography and I own a quite complete set of Alpa Max, Rodie lenses, 645DF and an IQ180.

Now my very urgent problem and I hope to get help from the forum. Since 5 days I stay at Iceland (2 weeks) with my 4x4 recreation van. The island is a winter-dream - my 16th journey to Iceland. Everything is fine, but ....

The IQ180 fails after several minutes when I expose it to temperatures below -4 deg. Celsius. Then the battery icon on the back is blinking and shows an empty battery. But I have 7 fully charges P1 batteries, three Haenel chargers and one Canon CH910 charger. The batteries are definitively full.

My question to IQ180 users: did your back work at temperatures below zero? Does the darkframe-subtraction work at temperatures below zero? When making longer exposuers the darkframe is made round about only every 10th shot.

And the 2nd question: Do you have any idea how to solve the battery-problem?

In the last days the temperatures were between -4 and -10 deg.

Thanks a lot in advance.

Best,

Gerhard

www.kubetschek.de
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Here are a few thoughts. Your issue is almost surely the amount of power able to be drawn from such a battery as it gets very cold. The IQ was tested in extreme environments during R+D but I've not personally had a chance to test it in such cold weather as I live in Miami. So these comments are based on my knowledge of the system and with extensive experience in cold environments with previous backs.

First: check your firmware. If you are not at 1.47 you should update your firmware as power management has been an area of focus on firmware development.

Second: make sure you're using only batteries with at least 2500mAh. Phase One's provided batteries.

Third: The IQ chassis is built specifically to dissipate heat from the sensor and battery into the chassis to be dissipated into the air. You may find improved internal battery performance by thermally insulating the back as the heat generated by the back will remain in the back and keep the battery warm. Some fabric wrapped around the outside might do the trick. Perhaps hand warmers in the extreme?

Fourth: you can also use firewire to power the back. The back must still have a battery inserted but the power will be coming from the firewire channel. The device providing such power can be kept inside your jacket to keep it from getting cold. It will also CHARGE the battery inserted in the back so that if and when you have to unplug the FW power it could continue to run off the internal battery. Some of the Hassy members of the forum (or searching threads about them) should give you some insight on devices that can be used for firewire power since most (or all depending on whether the battery accessory for the H4D-60 has shipped yet) Hasselblad backs require external power when on a tech camera.

Fifth: try changing your back to zero latency. This actually draws more from the battery, but will also keep the sensor on and active which will generate heat and maybe keep the battery warmer. This is only a theory, since I am in Miami I cannot test it, but since it's free and fast/easy for you to try I thought I'd mention it.

Sixth: Dark frames are captured by the back "as needed" based on a variety of variables. If you shoot multiple frames at the same metered shutter speed (e.g. 1/8th of a second) only the first frame will be followed by a dark frame.

Please keep us up to date on your progress.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________

Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One Partner of the Year
Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More

National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
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G

Gerhard

Guest
Doug, thank you very much for your quick and very valuable input.

- Yes, FW 1.47 as of September 19th is installed.

- All Batteries are P1 2500 mAh.

- Powering the IQ180 via FireWire is not possible because it would be too complicated to take a notebook with me when making hikes to locations. BTW my notebook has a 4pin FireWire only.

- Switching the back to zero latency is a great idea. I will test it tomorrow and let you know.

- Re. darkframes: If I shoot a panorama with 15 shots with 10s each: Do you think it is okay when the IQ only makes a darkframe on shot 3 and 12?

- According to Phase One Germany the back is designed to operate until -10 Deg. So my application is within the manufacturer's limit.

It's no fun to be at perfect locations with excellent light conditions and you cannot take a picture.

Best regards,

Gerhard
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
I've been in the Jackson Hole area for 2-months and for the last couple weeks or so have been shooting in temps as low as -5F (-20 Celsius) with wind chills as low as -15 degrees (-26 Celsius). We've done several sunrise shoots in this range as well as slightly warmer.

While I have a P65+ and not a IQ back I've found the battery life very good in these circumstances. I always begin the day with a fresh battery and have 2-more stuffed away in an inside pocket. I've also worked for several hours outside at one stretch without much difficulty. Actually I gave up first...

Don
 
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Gerhard

Guest
In the past I didn't have problems with the P45+ or P65+ in even colder conditions compared to the temperatures I have now.

Fortunately I took a P45+ as a backup with me. This is working properly and shows that the batteries are fully charged.

It would be a real show stopper if all IQ backs quit working at 4 below zero.

Gerhard


I've been in the Jackson Hole area for 2-months and for the last couple weeks or so have been shooting in temps as low as -5F (-20 Celsius) with wind chills as low as -15 degrees (-26 Celsius). We've done several sunrise shoots in this range as well as slightly warmer.

While I have a P65+ and not a IQ back I've found the battery life very good in these circumstances. I always begin the day with a fresh battery and have 2-more stuffed away in an inside pocket. I've also worked for several hours outside at one stretch without much difficulty. Actually I gave up first...

Don
 

Ztacir

Member
Hi,
I used my IQ180 last week in Georgia and the weather was freezing around -3 to -4 C.
I had 3 fully charged batteries with me and I shooted all day till sunset and my batteries were just finished at the end.
Only problem I had was with the live view.When I was shooting outside,the live view broke down totally.There was no or partial view on the screen.However,I had no problem with the live view while shooting interiors where it was around 0 -2 celsius.
Ziya
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
- Re. darkframes: If I shoot a panorama with 15 shots with 10s each: Do you think it is okay when the IQ only makes a darkframe on shot 3 and 12?
If everything is operating normally then I would not be concerned by whether the back does or does not think it needs to do a dark frame.

Regarding Firewire I was talking about using a device like the Big Wave Power unit that some of the Hasselblad dealers have historically sold to help their customers who need external power in the field. I was not referring to bringing your laptop into the field in -10C weather :).

I'd get in touch with your dealer so they can start a support case with Phase One to see if ya'll can work out any additional methods/solutions/approaches/information etc.
 

yaya

Active member
probably worth trying a Quantum battery (or something similar) with a Leaf DC-to-FW800 adapter
 

etrump

Well-known member
I have shot the IQ180 in sub-zero (celsius) with no problems. I kept the batteries in an inside coat pocket and they drained a little more quickly but not bad. I do shoot zero latency. My P65+ performed well in -30C for a few hours, I usually petered out before my pack of batteries.

Sounds like yours has a unique problem that P1 should check. At that temp things should be fine.
 
G

Gerhard

Guest
Excellent idea. Ten years ago I had a Quantum Battery for my Kodak DCS760. I will order the adapter when I'm back. Thanks Yair.

Gerhard


probably worth trying a Quantum battery (or something similar) with a Leaf DC-to-FW800 adapter
 
G

Gerhard

Guest
Thank you, Doug!

Setting the back to zero latency was an excellent advice. At -5 deg. the back is operating now for half an hour. Afterwards it is dead and I have to warm it up in the car.

At -10 deg. the time of use has gained, too. I cannot scientificly describe the difference but I was glad to use the back at this temperature for several shots now.

I hope that my IQ180 is "ill" and needs service. It would be a very heavy limitation if this behavior world be normal. The P65+ which I traded in did not have any problems in cold conditions.

BTW.: Iceland in winter is an absolutely unique experience.

Best,
Gerhard

PS.
How much is the fee for one year of your 24/7 hotline-service? ;-)))
 

jlm

Workshop Member
fyi:

the quantum battery I have used with my hasselblad H 39 back, and the firewire adapter was the Turbo 3, which will output low voltage to operate digital backs as well as the flash higher voltage, (the Turbo SC does not work as it only puts out high voltage for the flash)

I also tried the Bigwave power adapter which outputs via firewire and would power the H39 back, but not as much amp-hours. convenient though.
 
G

Gerhard

Guest
Thank, Jim, I will check out the options.

Gerhard


fyi:

the quantum battery I have used with my hasselblad H 39 back, and the firewire adapter was the Turbo 3, which will output low voltage to operate digital backs as well as the flash higher voltage, (the Turbo SC does not work as it only puts out high voltage for the flash)

I also tried the Bigwave power adapter which outputs via firewire and would power the H39 back, but not as much amp-hours. convenient though.
 
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Gerhard

Guest
Hi Rafael,

I have read the link and think, that this shooting at -11 degrees must have been a very quick one. Otherwise the model would have developed a blue cast in the face ;-)

I will let you know what PhaseOne say when they have my IQ180 in the factory.

in the meantime here in Iceland the temperature has raised quickly. From 10 below to plus 2 in one night. The roads here could work as an excellent training parcours for long distance ice-skaters. But I drive spikes-tires.

At temperatures around the freezing point the digital back works perfectly now.

Best,

Gerhard



Hello Gerhard,
I found here a guy using a IQ180 on a ski slope in Sweden, at -11 degrees with no apparent problem...http://photography-thedarkart.blogspot.com/2011/02/hands-on-with-new-phase-one-iq180.html

I guess it will be important to contact P1 to see what is going on with your back?

All the best chasing the icelandic light Gerhard!! ;-)

regards,
rafael
 
R

rafaelrojasphoto

Guest
Nice to hear. Yes please, let me know what is the conclusion of your back.
Northern Finland in February is not going to be around freezing point exactly...:):)

Meanwhile, maybe you saw this video where they tested the IQ back by having it at -70°C for a while?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytrsdSR_67Q&feature=player_embedded

So, theoretically, it should work at -14, isnt it? LOL

Take care mate and I hope you came with terrific images from Iceland,

rafael
 
G

Gerhard

Guest
I just had look at this video. At -80 degrees the IQ180 shows exactly the same problem like my IQ180 at -4 degrees: The battery icon is blinking! Have a look at the video.

Unfortunately with a blinking battery icon you cannot make a single exposure.

Nevertheless: a nice video ;-)

Best,

Gerhard



Nice to hear. Yes please, let me know what is the conclusion of your back.
Northern Finland in February is not going to be around freezing point exactly...:):)

Meanwhile, maybe you saw this video where they tested the IQ back by having it at -70°C for a while?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytrsdSR_67Q&feature=player_embedded

So, theoretically, it should work at -14, isnt it? LOL

Take care mate and I hope you came with terrific images from Iceland,

rafael
 

dchew

Well-known member
Dear forum,

The IQ180 fails after several minutes when I expose it to temperatures below -4 deg. Celsius.
Gerhard,
Something isn't right. I am not sure what you mean by several minutes, but after reading your post I went out for a 45 min walk with my dogs. -7 deg C, Alpa with an IQ180 in my hand (no camera bag to keep it warm).

I took 17 images (just casual stuff to test it). When I came back the battery was one notch below full. My hand was cold from carrying a chunk of metal, but the IQ180 was fine. Standard-issue P1 battery.

Dave
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Thank you, Doug!

Setting the back to zero latency was an excellent advice. At -5 deg. the back is operating now for half an hour. Afterwards it is dead and I have to warm it up in the car.

At -10 deg. the time of use has gained, too. I cannot scientificly describe the difference but I was glad to use the back at this temperature for several shots now.

I hope that my IQ180 is "ill" and needs service. It would be a very heavy limitation if this behavior world be normal. The P65+ which I traded in did not have any problems in cold conditions.

BTW.: Iceland in winter is an absolutely unique experience.

Best,
Gerhard

PS.
How much is the fee for one year of your 24/7 hotline-service? ;-)))
Please do keep us all up to date on the results of your work with your dealer and Phase One. This is the fist "Winter of the IQ180" and lab testing and R+D is one thing. Shooting in the field is another. Knowing whether Phase ends up deeming your system to be performing out of spec or not is important information for all.

While several of our customers have reported back with good-to-great experiences shooting in cold weather we (Capture Integration) don't have many data points for <-10C, and we try hard to only comment on things we have real world experience with.


Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________

Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One Partner of the Year
Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More

National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter | RSS Feed
Buy Capture One 6 at 10% off
 
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