Shashin
Well-known member
Thanks. :thumbup:No tripod needed for me. Nice image
Thierry
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Hasselblad CFV-39 digital back and a missed opportunity to sell thousands of them.
- Thread starter neil
- Start date
carstenw
Active member
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_Gursky
I guess your Google broke? Or was there a smiley missing?
Shashin
Well-known member
Missing smiley. Would you like me to reedit my post?
Not to throw oil on the fire, but some thoughts on the Hy6 and the Hassy V. I have for years been tempted by the Hassy V with a CV back - nice size, compact, and simple mech'l. The problem has been the Rollei system in the hands is just... well, its an update. If you forgive the Hy6 the handle on the side, you get practically everything (or more) of the H series, and also most of the virtues of the V series. From the V: choice of finders, wide set of lenses, removable backs, modular system, with all sorts of different accessories; from the H: all different levels of automation and sophistication current today. Overall, better mirror damping than the V; integral back "alignment" or shimming; focus trap, bracketing,.... etc. A bunch of Schneider lenses that remain valid.
For the serious amateur, there is another virtue - focus confirmation allows the use of a manual lenses without fault. Thus you have access to 20 years + of used 6008 lenses.... and they are running at about Leica used prices, while not cheap, they are affordable if you pick carefully. Add to that the rotating sensor, use of film if you want, etc. C1 support...
Yes supposedly its a "dead system", but what does that mean? I had an M2 for a jillion years, and didn't ever call on Leica for it to be a viable camera. Contax owners been shooting happily with less factory support than DHW. OK - its a small factory, building it from parts, and maybe its on life support, but its still there, still supporting the camera, lenses and accessories. Its not global, its local. Service is personal. Is that all bad?
It just seems if we could get away from the issue of "who's got the current corner on MFDB systems?", and more on to what works, and what you need for it to work, we'd be having a slightly different discussion. The Hy6 system is a pretty viable alternative if you are willing to live with long-distance support and are technically interested. Its not buffed and polished, certainly doesn't present strongly in the publicity world (better yet, it hides itself pretty well), but it does work strongly.
For the serious amateur, there is another virtue - focus confirmation allows the use of a manual lenses without fault. Thus you have access to 20 years + of used 6008 lenses.... and they are running at about Leica used prices, while not cheap, they are affordable if you pick carefully. Add to that the rotating sensor, use of film if you want, etc. C1 support...
Yes supposedly its a "dead system", but what does that mean? I had an M2 for a jillion years, and didn't ever call on Leica for it to be a viable camera. Contax owners been shooting happily with less factory support than DHW. OK - its a small factory, building it from parts, and maybe its on life support, but its still there, still supporting the camera, lenses and accessories. Its not global, its local. Service is personal. Is that all bad?
It just seems if we could get away from the issue of "who's got the current corner on MFDB systems?", and more on to what works, and what you need for it to work, we'd be having a slightly different discussion. The Hy6 system is a pretty viable alternative if you are willing to live with long-distance support and are technically interested. Its not buffed and polished, certainly doesn't present strongly in the publicity world (better yet, it hides itself pretty well), but it does work strongly.
I doubt you'll get much argument about the Hy6's virtues Geoff, and most know them pretty well. On paper it indeed fits the spec's for those who like that type of camera, and the various modern features it has. Definately a great camera.
I don't recall anyone specifically calling it a "dead system", but it does present itself as a "dead-end system" as of now ... which can be a somewhat unnerving prospect to commit to with a Hy6 mount DB, and expensive Rollei Leaf shutter lens system. At best it is an exotic choice.
IMO, mechanical cameras like the M2 and V are different, there are so many places and well known technicians to get them repaired that it takes the edge off, not to mention there are replacements to be had in an instant. Even the Contax 645 was somewhat different ... it was a well established, popular platform made for years before its demise, is still readily available used at reasonable prices (heck, even B&H has used ones in stock), and ToCad Inc. was officially appointed as the service agent in the USA. As an example of "dead-end" becoming "dead", ToCad no longer can service the Contax RTS and RTS-II because parts are no longer available ... they won't even accept the camera.
What I find interesting when you follow some discussions among Hy6 users, they remind me of V users ... devoted to the square ... and they keep wishing for a 56 X 56 sensor DB. I wonder how many years it takes before it's clear that nostalgic notion isn't going to happen?
Frankly, I'd love a Hy6 and 60 or 80 meg back, with a decent range of AF lenses, to work along with my Leica S2P ... that would be my "dream Team". However, when romance meets reality, I know it's a pipe dream. There is nothing that I do or shoot, that my H4D/60 can't do, and in some cases do better ... I may not have a deep affection for the H like I already have for the S2, had for the V, or presumably could for a Rollei ... but all that evaporates when I'm intensely working and the camera becomes invisible with-in the creative and shooting process. I'd bet many Phase One camera users could echo that reality. Admiring one's tools and getting the job done are two different things, and admiration for one's tools grows when it consistently and reliably gets the job done ... with strong behind the scenes support and even rental back-ups if necessary. My S2P was replaced literally over-night when an issue cropped up, Hassey tech services has solved every issue I've had to date with-in hours. I know MFD, and to think no issue will ever arise is really losing touch with reality IMO.
I stand by my opinion that bigger camera's like Hy6 (as sophisticated as it may be) are increasingly going to become exotic choices that "feed the need" of the past for those that love that sort of thing ... and sleeker, smaller, faster, more integrated, more versatile, more innovative MFD systems will forge the future.
But at least the Hy6 (or to a lesser degree the V or RZ) are choices, rather than none.
-Marc
carstenw
Active member
NoMissing smiley. Would you like me to reedit my post?
Speaking of Nostalgia and Ludditism why do you guys all agree the Hy6 is the "best MF camera ever"? What can it do that the Contax 645 cannot do? I ask as am seriously considering what any digital camera can do that the Contax 645 cannot do? Yes it is just another legacy product in the ongoing great march forward but so is Walker Evans, William Eggleston et al. Maybe newer is not always better?
carstenw
Active member
It is somewhat more advanced than the Contax 645 (which I also own). It has spot metering in every viewfinder, for example, focus trap, but for me the big draw is its ability to do 6x6 as well as host a digital back. There are also many more lenses for it, and much more system around it (bellows, flash accessories, and so on).
I wouldn't call Walker Evans and William Eggleston "legacy products", btw. A camera goes out of date, or loses support, a photographer not.
I wouldn't call Walker Evans and William Eggleston "legacy products", btw.
A camera goes out of date, or loses support, a photographer not.Well put. You are probably right about future trends and the sober thoughts about service.
The idea of the lengthy post was to point out that in a few ways, the system could be considered an evolution of the V, updated some 20+ years later. At least that's how it feels here - but its a position sure to gather few friends in either V or 6008 land. The beloved virtues of the V - its modular, flexible, systems approach with extensive backwards compatibility - were not apparent in other contemporary systems such as the H and S2, although they have different merits. Sweet spots (wherever they are found) are hard to give up!
Your points about the complexity of the electronics has truth - certainly for a pro. One remembers that pros used to carry redundant gear for this reason, but with the $ this stuff costs, its hard to load up that way.
In any case, Happy New Years!
Steve Hendrix
Well-known member
Every camera has room for improvement. The Hy6 is more "fully featured" than the Contax, and a very different type of camera, larger body, different ergonomics, etc.
We still have a steady, loyal Contax user base. I was testing an IQ160 on our Contax last week. It had been a while, and it brought back those warm feelings again.
For me, it's about what I like from each camera, what does each have to offer, and what will be the nagging things missing or poorly implemented that I will regret.
With the Contax, I like the lenses, the dense, metal feel of the body, it's minimalist feel and approach, and perhaps most of all, the gentle feel and sound of the shutter. Often it's a combination of the big things and (more than we realize) the little things that come together which propel our choice. Sorry that it is out of development. But that doesn't mean it does not merit consideration as a camera platform for a user.
Steve Hendrix
The original image apparently contained bikers, walkers and a building. All digitally removed.
This is also the reason why I placed an order for a Hy6. I see it as a replacement for the Hasselblad V system, as a modern version of the V.
I sold my Contax 645 2 years ago. Excellent camera. I kept my H1 and bought a digital back for it. Two reasons: 1) more H mount backs available on the used market 2) mediocre autofocus of the Contax 645. If you manually focus the Contax 645 is still one of the best cameras. The Hy6 has all the conveniences of a modern system plus the ability to shoot 6x6 film. As such I believe it is pretty unique.
Anyway, I am always watching this space with curiousity, it does have some of the characteristics of a soap opera....
Contax 645 also has bellows and flash accessories but maybe the Hy6 has more of them?
I wouldn't call Walker Evans and William Eggleston "legacy products", btw. A camera goes out of date, or loses support, a photographer not.
To tell the truth Carsten, I often wonder if I myself am out of date and losing support. It is a bit like the spin cycle on a washing machine that seems to come and go according to where I am in my current project cycle.
As for real photogs, true Walker Evans is still a well-known brand but how about Carleton E. Watkins, Anne W. Brigman, Eikoh Hosoe and Clarence John Laughlin who was known as the "Baudelaire of the Bayous" and considered to be the foremost exponent of the 1930s French Surrealist movement...
BTW excuse this detour from the topic :OT:
Contax 645 also has bellows and flash accessories but maybe the Hy6 has more of them?
I wouldn't call Walker Evans and William Eggleston "legacy products", btw. A camera goes out of date, or loses support, a photographer not.
To tell the truth Carsten, I often wonder if I myself am out of date and losing support. It is a bit like the spin cycle on a washing machine that seems to come and go according to where I am in my current project cycle.
As for real photogs, true Walker Evans is still a well-known brand but how about Carleton E. Watkins, Anne W. Brigman, Eikoh Hosoe and Clarence John Laughlin who was known as the "Baudelaire of the Bayous" and considered to be the foremost exponent of the 1930s French Surrealist movement...
BTW excuse this detour from the topic :OT:
johnnygoesdigital
New member
Gursky is fantastic, but it should also be noted that he shoots with a Linhof and scans his negatives.
EH21
Member
Marc,
Let's hope that neither the Hy6/AFi or the S2 are 'dead ends'! When I had my DMR, I never thought Leica would kill the R system. Great camera as I'm sure the S2 is, however I'm still a bit put off from buying into another leica system since I don't trust they'll be kind. Stop and look at it - do you know for sure Leica will update the S2 with a new sensor or complete the lens line up? Probably as good a chance that someone will provide an updated back for the Hy6 in the future (we just got the AFi-ii 12 last year which is still available). Still the Hy6 path lets you default back to film and there's a plethora of legacy lenses available.
Eric
Let's hope that neither the Hy6/AFi or the S2 are 'dead ends'! When I had my DMR, I never thought Leica would kill the R system. Great camera as I'm sure the S2 is, however I'm still a bit put off from buying into another leica system since I don't trust they'll be kind. Stop and look at it - do you know for sure Leica will update the S2 with a new sensor or complete the lens line up? Probably as good a chance that someone will provide an updated back for the Hy6 in the future (we just got the AFi-ii 12 last year which is still available). Still the Hy6 path lets you default back to film and there's a plethora of legacy lenses available.
Eric
EH21
Member
Regarding the contax 645... I looked at it before deciding on the Rollei 6008AF long ago. It has some nice features but I found the viewfinder dim and tiny in comparison to the Rollei, the AF slower than an old volkwagon bus, and the lenses while many are fast and sharp, render in a way as to say, "this is a photo not reality" with their chromatic doublets and hard edged aperture shapes in the bokeh. Most of the zeiss lenses from that vintage also have difficult distortion profiles to correct. Some of these older zeiss lenses are available in Rollei mounts but there also is the choice of the newer optical designs from schneider too.
Eric
Eric
carstenw
Active member
It has more different macro lenses (90, 120, 150 dedicated, reverse mount adapter with electronic contacts), and so on. If you are interested in knowing more, there is a great site with lots of details here: http://www.rolleiflexpages.com/
Tongue in cheek again
Time to refresh then! Get a new camera, shoot a different style, switch from digital to film or vice versa, etc.