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Kodak file ch 11
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MaxKißler
New member
+1
On the one hand, I strongly support any new ideas that could improve the technical aspect of photography but on the other hand, these samples don't convince me yet. Most probably because I raelly dislike cmos sensors... If these were in fact jpegs straight out of the camera, I'd say they're fine. But considering the fact that it's just another aps-c-sized cmos sensor would very likely get me to buying a used M8 instead, which is likely to be in the same price range...
All three are 1:1 crops.
They are out of camera jpegs.
You say neither crops look good... what about the moire on the CCD MF and none at all with the Fuji.
One thing I found interesting is that in photoshop I ran the shadow highlights filter to snoop into the blacks
and found that they held up very well as do most CCD sensors in the shadows. This tends to be an area where
most cmos sensors have trouble.
Fuji knows a thing or two about sensors.... I remember testing a Fuji back for the GX680 ages ago.
It was a dual array of sites. One for shadows and one for highlights. Images were brilliant.
Unfortunately it was only sold in Japan.
What is it that you don't like about the Fuji samples?
What about the moire on the CCD back.. the third image.
EDIT:
I just noticed your a Leaf product manager....
Wayne Fox
Workshop Member
what phase back produced out of camera jpegs?
since they aren't identical shots of identical subject with identical data compared, they are pretty much irrelevant. The artifacts you claim is moire could be caused by many things.
BTW, seems to be a far reach from the topic. One thing I've always liked about getDPI is how things tend to stay on topic. there are a lot more relevant things to discuss about the implications of kodak's chapter 11 (for example, does apple really own the rights to many of the patents Kodak claims to own) than if a fuji sensor is better than a phase sensor...
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The Fuji images are out of camera jpegs. Obviously the Phase image is not an out of camera jpeg.
The artifacts in the image are moire. Totally absent on slide film shot with the very same camera.
What in your opinion would be causing it?
I think that moire free (or almost free) sensors are very on topic when discussing Kodak's chapter 11. Many people think kodak sensor division is dead.
It is not and they are developing moire free sensors as well as sensors with superior monochrome. A FF 24x36 has already been announced that is not a bayer array.
Going back to the Chapter 11 issue...
One of the main reasons Kodak is doing this is to get out of part of their pension contracts with it retired employees. A huge obligation. This is going to be tough for many many people.
http://www.timesnews.net/article/9041171/kodak-retirees-may-be-affected-by-bankruptcy
It also makes it much easier for Kodak to sell it's intellectual property.
One the bankruptcy court OKs the sale can go ahead with out 3rd parties being able to block the sales.
One of the main reasons Kodak is doing this is to get out of part of their pension contracts with it retired employees. A huge obligation. This is going to be tough for many many people.
http://www.timesnews.net/article/9041171/kodak-retirees-may-be-affected-by-bankruptcy
It also makes it much easier for Kodak to sell it's intellectual property.
One the bankruptcy court OKs the sale can go ahead with out 3rd parties being able to block the sales.
Wayne Fox
Workshop Member
Well, you did imply all three are out of camera. I knew the phase wasn't, seems it should have been clearer in your post.
So is the fuji's "lack" of moire due to sensor design? Does it have an AA filter? What's going on with the camera firmware? Moire can be resolved by software and that software is getting better (LR4 seems to be pretty good at it). All I can say is they look a little soft ... like an AA filter. I"m not saying they're not good, but then unless they put one in a medium format system not much interest from me.
Even though the sensor might not be a "bayer" sensor, it's still based on the concept, with each sensel seeing only red, green, or blue. the arrangement changes and perhaps the susceptibility to moire decreases, but it still must extrapolate color so we'll see how perfect it can be. I know all sensor makers are testing other arrangements than the traditional bayer, to me the most promising was this one by Kodak.
Still seems off topic because Kodak no longer owns their sensor division and has nothing to do with future developments of sensors. Whether or not the company that purchased them is viable is another topic.Might be a good thing for all they sold the sensor division, although maybe there's too much competition for it to be viable. Important, probably, but nothing to do with Kodak anymore.
Wayne Fox
Workshop Member
good points.
I have dealt directly with Kodak for several decades, and was a beta facility for some of their digital printing equipment in the 90s. (I even got a ride on their private jet once before they had to sell those). I have many friends from those relationships that have lost their jobs over the years, and several who basically chose early retirement. Stockholders also lose, but then again the stock had tanked so bad already there wasn't much left to lose.
Of course the alternative of foundering on until having to file Chapter 7 nets the same results for the pensions. still tough going for many friends.
And I'm sure there are a couple more rounds of layoffs coming ...
Actually the new company has a lot to do with Kodak.
It has preferential access to Kodak know how and Kodak has preferential access to the new companies products.
The companies have such a close relationship that Truesense Imaging, Inc home page is still under the Kodak domain.
Platinum Equity is smart enough to keep ties to Kodak.
Actually the new company has a lot to do with Kodak.
It has preferential access to Kodak know how and Kodak has preferential access to the new companies products.
Kodak also has a lot to do with future developments seeing that much is based on current and future kodak research.
No AA filter.
The sensor uses a more irregular layout of the different colored sensors producing more of a randomized irregular sampling to achieve more of a film like look.
I don't find the images soft at all.
Here is an example of what this camera and it's sensor can do.
Keep in mind this is a street photo and not something setup for a camera ad.
Night time image with great depth and smoothness while retaining fine detail without looking harsh.
Another thing to keep in mind is that Fuji has a huge advantage over other camera companies when it comes to small sensor lens design. Fuji has invested millions in
small capture area lenses due to it's development of feature film lenses. These are very advanced designs and the trickle down value is immense.
These are $20,000 to $60,000 dollar lenses that produce amazing images crammed down into small sensors of cine cameras.
yaya
Active member
This sale announcement came just 2 days before Vision 2011 and there was no point in changing the show's plans and coming as something other than Kodak
At the show when talking to employees they could not say anything about future plans or future name of the new company simply because they did not know what the future holds for them