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Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Mainly what I really need to do is organize a Major Shoot out, of not the VS. this or that, but so that I have a full day to shoot all cameras at once, shooting what I shoot most... FASION PORTRAITS, if the camera passes this test, then shooting Table Tops, Cars, Mountains... that is easy... ;)
There ya go!
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
Where do I sign up? Wait, I think Dave already knows...

I can pick it up next month when I'm in Atlanta. :D
 

EH21

Member
If you do mostly fashion and portrait you will love the rotating sensor on the Aptus 12R. Takes like 1 second to change from portrait to landscape and back and the ergonomics of the camera don't have to change.

I'm a big fan of the AFi/Hy6 system. Your choice of 4 finders, some of the fastest best glass available - like the zeiss 110/2, Schneider 50/2.8, 80/2, 180/2.8. The excellently damped mirror and shutters in the lenses let's you shoot at very slow shutter speeds or at fast sync. Histogram display on the grip near the controls. Camera can do a very fast frame rate and there are even film backs for it too if you like. Ergonomics are the best out there IMHO. If you go with the Leaf AFi-ii 12 you can use the sensor flex to select your crop ratio, rotate and use the articulating screen too. What's not to love?
 

KETCH ROSSI

New member
The more I continue to contemplate this shoot out and the more I see one thing as I try to set things up, if I do find available bodies in Rome, if not I might need to go to Milan to do this, or even strait to Germany, or just wait till I return from my March Fashion Shoot (this with the RED EPIC) from Brazil, and then I can stop by in LA for few days right before NAB in Vegas, and do this there, then simply come back with a BAG FULL OF GOODIES... ;)

What I always not have been a big fan of in MF was always the nSquare or near Square ratio, and not just because coming from many years of 35mm shooting, but because of my life long passion for Cinema, and love the Frame grabs I get out of the RED EPIC in both Landscape and Portrait mode, just lovely, so for this reason the Leica S2 and the Leaf Aptus II 10R were my first choices, as I really hate to be cropping, I frame exactly were I want it, and that is it, however lets see how I fill with the larger sensor look when printing.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
I am a happy S2 user but if you write that you like to shoot architecture I imediatly think of the Artec (or another camera with T/S).

My personal experience is Hy6 and S2, and I liked both but there is a big difference how they handle.

While I enjoyed the Hy6 WLF a lot and can only say good things about the lenses and the IQ I find the big advantage (for me) of the S2 that it can do so many things that I earlier did with a dslr. It draws less attention than other MF cameras, it handles very fast, its weathersealed and the lenses are fast.

I I wan the lottery I might even want both, a Leaf or Sinar back with Hy6 and Artech and the S2.

How big do you plan to print that you worry about "only" 37MP?
 

Shashin

Well-known member
I routinely print 44" x 58" prints from my 40MP Pentax 645D files and they are beautiful and I doubt I have hit a size limit. The S2 has an almost identical sensor. If you don't crop, I am not really sure what more you want.

To give you a scale of 44" prints, the first image in this article has two 44" prints I made from Pentax 645D files for a poetry festival. The frame was extended for the poetry and so the final print was 7 foot high, but the image was not cropped. 44" is quite impressive:

ADZ-Online - Autumnal Love of M(a)ine, oder das andere L.A.
 

KETCH ROSSI

New member
Okay so this is what I will be shooting in percentages:

HIGH FASHION 50%

LANDSCAPE w GIRLS 10%

CITYSCAPES w GIRLS 10%

LANDSCAPES 10%
ARCHITECTURE 10%
OTHER 10%

So shooting girls is mostly what I'll be using the camera for, both in Studio and outdoors in a variety of Back Drops, especially here in Ancient Rome Historic Center.

But when I do Still Photography I really want DETAIL!!

For this I worry that the 37MP's of the LEICA S2 might not be good in off, then again, we'll see.

How big I'll print?


BIG

STUDIO FASHION about 6 Feet

LANDSCAPE AND CITYSCAPE FASHION up to 9 feet

CITYSCAPES AND LANDSCAPES even bigger, up to 12 feet,

Obviously since the viewing distance as we go that big will be further away, it will not need to be 320DPI, however I do need detail like you don't usually see in this type of prints, and since I want to make an exceptional start,. I do want and need ot chose wisely.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
Detail? You mean like this? Here is a single 40MP frame shot through a hotel window and 100% crop. The entire pano is also here. This is shot with a Pentax manual focus 120mm macro. I am sure a Leica lens will be equal to or better than this--you may even find a hotel window with better optical properties.

I think ultimately you need to get some files and print them to see what the pixel resolution and sensor size means. Whatever MFD system you get, I doubt you will be disappointed.
 

KETCH ROSSI

New member
Yes of course I'll need t print them all and see final detail on print, and this is exactly what I intend to do this time around before putting down 50 to 80k on aMF system.. ;)

Nice shots.
 

Wayne Fox

Workshop Member
On the AA, I know I am not making a BIG deal of it, it is a BIG deal, I have used them extensively in both rechargeable and not, and will NEVER again, use any rechargeable butteries, they simply are NOT good, and I have tried so many, they don't hold the charge, and are practically useless especially when changing extreme temperatures which often I do, so its a DEFINITIVE NO, on the DF body till they come up with a BETTER solution.
Well you are making a big deal of it, and you refuse to believe the truth.

Eveready Lithium I am speaking of are NOT rechargeable batteries. They will last you forever - (OK a long time. At least 50 recharges of the back battery). (they are pricey but they will out last several sets of alkaline batteries. One set of spares (which is less than you will need with any other camera solution using rechargeable systems) is all you will ever need, and you probably can wait months after one runs out before even worrying about replacing them.

Don't believe me if you will, but not considering the DF for this reason is completely illogical. I'm not sure why you disbelieve those that have the bodies, but a DF goes a VERY long time on 1 set of these batteries.

It really is a non-issue. If you want to use this as an excuse to discount the DF, fine, but you are misguided and making completely unfounded assumptions without any fact or experience.
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
I'll jump in here and second what Wayne said about the Everyready Lithiums. Simple put thery're a great battery. Costly - but the best I've ever use. I used these while testing the DF last year in Jackson WY where it warmed up to 5 degress somedays and most had a windchill of -15. These batteries lasted way longer than the Phase batteries in my P65.

Don
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
Another advantage not mentioned about the Energizer Lithium AA batteries, is that they are exceptionally lightweight---much lighter than either rechargeable or standard alkaline AA batteries. Energizer Lithium AAs cost about US$9 per set of 4, but they are dependable and last. Power consumption/stability is much improved in the DF body (compared to previous generations) and simply is not an issue with AA lithiums installed.

I look forward to finding out more about the new lithium ion DF battery module.

ken
 
R

Rafa

Guest
I don't want to add to the confusion but I'm not exactly sure what is the complaint with the V-grip (other that its price, but you said money is not a problem). I mostly shoot in studio vertically and I'd venture that if you shoot fashion you want a comfortable grip when holding the camera vertically. I don't know of any other medium format that offers that (other than the RZ or Hy6 with a rotating back).
With the V-grip you use the exact same battery as the back and it lasts forever. As has been said above the P1 backs will eat batteries like there is no tomorrow. In my shooting conditions in studio about 300 shots is all they last. My workflow now is, change the 16Gb card and change the battery in the back. After a full day of shooting going through 4 or 5 batteries in the back the camera's battery is still showing full power. The nice thing is when traveling in remotes places I have the option of using AA for the camera if in a pinch I want to save all the batteries for the back.
Also, if you shoot fashion and use the new Profoto Air's the grip has the radio trigger incorporated. One less thing to fuss about.
My only gripe with the grip :) is that I wish it was integrated in the camera instead of being an accessory and I sure hope Phase One new camera has a vertical grip like a Nikon D3 or Canon D1s.
my $0.02
 

KETCH ROSSI

New member
Okay Wayne, you made your case... ;)

I'll be buying few sets of this batteries and give them a try on my ever Hungry Flashes, see how they stuck up, then I'll have a set ready when I do the test with the DF.

Its just really been that bad with me and AA in the past, for this I just about discarded them all, but I'll sincerely give this a good shot, as I do come to need them badly for other gear as well from time to time, and even so I'm moving to an all CONTINUOS lighting system for all my Cinema work and Still or Frame Grabs work, I will still want to have some easy, small portable flashes with me.

Thanks guys, I will give the DF body a good fair chance, if for anything else because is the only one of two viable options to use the Leaf or P1 DB's... ;)
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
Okay Wayne, you made your case... ;)

I'll be buying few sets of this batteries and give them a try on my ever Hungry Flashes, see how they stuck up, then I'll have a set ready when I do the test with the DF.

....
Ketch, Just to muddle the issue more, I wouldn't use the Energizer Lithium AAs in certain flashes (Speedlites)---or exercise caution. For example, in the Canon 580EX, the batteries can get very very hot, shut down the flash, and possibly cause damage. This happened to my assistant, and she wasn't machine gun shooting either. :loco: So I googled Canon 580 and Lithiums (gotta love google, huh? Not quite like actual experience, but it can confirm experience) and it was a "known issue." Go figure.

I use rechargeables or regular Duracell AAs normally. The Energizer Lithium AAs are reserved only for the DF. Given the choice, I'd use the new Lithium ion DF insert and keep a few packs of the Energizer Lithium AAs as backup.

ken
 

KETCH ROSSI

New member
Cool, thanks Ken, yeah I actually did knew about the issue on the 580's, still have two new ones I will end up selling once the 1Ds III goes out the door... ;)
 

johnnygoesdigital

New member
Ketch,

The Hasselblad H4d/60 or H4d/50, might make a good choice for your style of shooting. Leaf shutters are the best for sync, and landscape, as they don't create movement as much as the FP shutter of the DF. One battery powers the unit, and with a few extra, can take you into the wilderness for days! The center of gravity on the H models is ideal for portraits or landscape.
What's not mentioned here is the fact that the FP shutter is always part of the sequence in the DF, it can't be isolated even using leaf shutter lenses. There's also the issue of the camera jamming when using MU, so much of an issue that there's been numerous threads on this. I think it's fair to mention this considering the investment. It's really the lens that will make the best use of the resolution you need. Have fun!
 

jeanlucco

Member
Ketch,
I should be in Milano within few days, cannot help with the AFI12 but no problem to bring my AFI system with let's say the 80 and 180 + the AFI7II. You should try the rotating sensor, just magic compare to all others brands. Anyway, your post can easily start WWIII between MF users :) Cheers, jean-Luc
 

KETCH ROSSI

New member
John,

syncing is not most of my concern as I am moving almost entirely to the BRIESE FOCUS CINEMA HMI continuos lighting system, as well as also continuos LEWD sources and few super powerful HMI units, 18K's, but I will most definitely shoot the Hassy, and leaning to the H4D-200MS.

Thanks Jean-Luc, I'm on my way to Egypt for a Movie, and right after I return to Rome I'm taking off for NY ,to hit Brazil... ;)

But I truly appreciate your offer!!
 

SergeiR

New member
Meh... Nuff wrong with AA batteries.. I don't use AF much and my packs last for few months easy.. I actually like to have them b/c then i know i got option of falling back to film at any time, and AA batteries are easy to find. Charging when you traveling becomes real problem sometime.
 
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