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it will be super interesting to see Nikon D800 VS Leica S2

jonoslack

Active member
It's not just you. I just downloaded all the D800 sample images from the Nikon website. Based on what I see here, these don't look anything like what I get with my S2. They have the look of a D300 with a lot more pixels. Missing is the per-pixel sharpness, microcontrast and texture. In fact, nothing in these images is actually sharp. I'll reserve final judgement until a controlled test can be done and we're not just looking at JPGs from CaptureNX.

David
HI David
Were these from the 800, or the 800e, because I'd think that's really relevant.
Mind you, all the publicity shots seem to show the camera with the 24-120 f4 - excellent for a zoom perhaps, but unlikely to be up making the most of a 36mp sensor!

all the best
 

Paratom

Well-known member
I agree a step up but at almost 10X the price it's making me reconsider the S2!
If you look at the high quality Nikon lenses-they are not cheap either.
10x is much overrated, however I admit 4x is still a veeery big difference.

But do you think the IQ difference between the D800 and the Nex7 is worth to spend double the price of a Nex7...which by the way would make much more sense if you like to use life-view for focusing and using third party lenses.
 

dhazeghi

New member
Still, the S2 sensor is quite a lot bigger, physically, so there's that "MF" look to images that the D800 will not be able to meet—but I think the Leica R lenses on this camera will produce very fine images, to be sure.
1.25X linear size difference. That's visible, but not dramatic.

The S2 will have about 1/2 stop advantage in terms of DoF for the same aperture and AoV, but the compared to SLR f/1.4 lenses, you're still going to be able to go shallower with the smaller camera.

DH
 

Quentin_Bargate

Well-known member
Having been set that Reichmann challenge of distiguishing between A3+ sized prints from a Phase One P65 back and a Canon G10 and got many completely wrong (like everyone else who has taken the test) I'd wager that the same may well apply for an S2 / D800 comparison.

I've printed out some shots at A2 or so size that were taken with the NEX-7 and they look good emough to me at normal (close) viewing distances to have been taken with a 4x5 film camera (save better DOF for the NEX). I kid you not. That squares with the Michael Reichmann challenge. I use the NEX-7 a lot more than my Hassy H4D. Yes, the Hassy is better in absolute terms, but I don't have the Hassy on me all the time and the differences are primarily in how the two cameras are used. The main reason to get an S2 over a D800 are unlikely therefore to be resolution or sharpness, but handling, lens choice, and pride of ownership. I'd like one, but I have no need for one!
 

gazwas

Active member
Well I for one think the 800E is a bargain!

Yes the (jpeg) examples on Nikon's website are a little underwhelming and don't match up to the hype but come on guys they are pretty amazing considering the price the camera will sell for. I think MF is safe for the moment if you're just after ultimate IQ regardless of price but credit where credit's due it's pretty amazing from a 35mm chip.

A perfect compliment to any MF shooters case.
 

jonoslack

Active member
If you look at the high quality Nikon lenses-they are not cheap either.
10x is much overrated, however I admit 4x is still a veeery big difference.
Yes - from my experience I don't think they're in the same league as the S lenses (in performance or price).

But do you think the IQ difference between the D800 and the Nex7 is worth to spend double the price of a Nex7...which by the way would make much more sense if you like to use life-view for focusing and using third party lenses.
Well, that's where I'm coming from as well - but then I don't use the NEX7 for my 'main' detailed work, nor would I the D800 - if I didn't already have an M9, an A900 and a pile of Zeiss glass , and you didn't already have an S2, then maybe the D800e would be unmissable!:ROTFL:
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
I've ordered an 800e this morning, having vowed after my D7000 foray (not a decent lens in sight for the DX format) that I wouldn't ever do Nikon again. If I like it, I am going to consolidate a lot of other gear - finally sell my IQ180 kit, also my M9, Canon 5DII and all my MFT and end up with just the nikon and an NEX7 for using my Leica glass on.

I might not end up with the very very finest results ever, but 99% of the time it won't matter and I will only be running two systems which, between them, should cover all my bases.

But like I said, only IF I like the 800e. If not, I will knock it out pronto!
 

Paratom

Well-known member
I have no doubts the D800 will be a great camera and a step forward in many regards and it will deliver great IQ.

I just think it does not make much sense to discuss how much IQ is worth how much money. Plus we all know that the last little bit of quality increase often means quite an increase in cost/price.

Last not least I believe user interface (which is very much personal thing) is much underrated in many comparisons.

But I will for sure follow the results and experience with the D800, and if it gets close to MF IQ and if it works as good as the D700 and if the lenses are up to the resolution and if the D800-color will be to my taste - then.... I would still first shoot both cameras side by side for some months to see what works better for me..
Tashley-if 40MP is good for you why didnt you buy a IQ140 instead of the IQ180?
 

Ben Rubinstein

Active member
I think we're going to have to wait for some raw files shot with decent glass (not zooms) to get a better idea. To be honest I find the Leaf RAW files on their website to be rather underwhelming if only because the focus almost never seems to be on the models eyes. These kinds of samples rarely impress. They could do with a bunch of D800E fashion samples shot with great glass.
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
Tashley-if 40MP is good for you why didnt you buy a IQ140 instead of the IQ180?
Good question! I was on the upgrade path from a 65+ and I wanted the new touch screen, the USB and the live view and focus mask... And I still thought it would all improve my work! I also didn't realise it would compromise my 35XL so badly :-(
 

coz

New member
But what decent glass? It seems to me they are few and far between.


Great question I'm not sure what the answer is. I used to have some Zeiss lenses on my old 5D2 that I liked better than Canon primes maybe the Nikon equivalent?
 

Shashin

Well-known member
I will wait until Olympus introduces a m4/3 36MP sensor which will blow the Nikon out of the water!
 

Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
How about a frankenstein system consisting of the D800E with only legendary 35mm optics:

Please edit this list!

1. Zeiss 21 2.8 on the low-end-side - 2k USD

2. Coastal Optics 60mm Macro as a standard lens - 4.5k USD

3. Leica R 90mm Apo Sumicron ASPH 4k USD or

4. Zeiss 100 2.0 Macro - 2k USD

5. Leica R 180mm Summicron 6k USD

I'm not sure what the best 50mm lens is or what the best 35mm would be ... haha so the whole system costs as much as a MFD system with the Nikon being just one cheap piece of the equation ...
 

Ben Rubinstein

Active member
Most of those samples are from zooms, let's see the D800E with primes like the new 24mm, 35mm and 85 1.4 first, perhaps add zeiss lenses to that, then form an opinion. Pics taken handheld with a 24-70 or 70-200 at slow shutter speeds (portrait shots) are not going to be able to show exactly what this camera can do!
 
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Shashin

Well-known member
Paul, I thought in your other thread you were boasting about the 'superior' AF of the d800, but you only have manual focus lenses in your list that are going to need stop down metering--and it will have to probably be simple center weighted. That does not sound like a good deal compared to a MFD that has multi-segment metering with AF. But if that is where you want to save money...

Actually, my four lens MFD system cost much less than what is on your list--nearly half price
 

Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
Paul, I thought in your other thread you were boasting about the 'superior' AF of the d800, but you only have manual focus lenses in your list that are going to need stop down metering--and it will have to probably be simple center weighted. That does not sound like a good deal compared to a MFD that has multi-segment metering with AF. But if that is where you want to save money...

Actually, my four lens MFD system cost much less than what is on your list--nearly half price
I'm not siding with the D800 but only quoting the new camera's features and asking if the announcement makes some people reconsider their investments in gear.

The AF is superior: having 61 AF points and face recognition instead of one or three AF points in the center is quite neat. But if you take a close look at the samples posted on the Nikon site you will see that most images even though shot at ISO 100 and apertures of say f8 clearly show the deficiencies of the optical system. My guess is that in order to fully exploit the D800s 36 MPX one will have to buy exotic, special, expensive glass as the examples posted above. The irony is, that even in the world of 35mm the best optics don't come around cheap.
 
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