it will be super interesting to see Nikon D800 VS Leica S2

[cng]

Maybe it is better to evaluate the merits of the D800 as a DSLR-like MFDB rather than as a MFDB-like DSLR?

Hope you have your flameproof suit on. :toocool:

But seriously, the basic problem with your statement is that the D800 is still physically "only" 24x36mm. That's analogous to saying in the film days that 135 was comparable to 645/6x6/6x7 because we could use the same film in different formats. MP's are not the only considerations – format size still matters (at least to me).

I'll let all the tech heads debate signal/noise, dynamic range, lenses etc. but every format has a different look as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Anders_HK]

Hope you have your flameproof suit on. :too cool:


... but every format has a different look as far as I'm concerned.

YES!!!... and the sample images also of D800E do look very DSLR... why should they not??? It is a DSLR and with a sensor that no matter what pixels is designed for general use and a broad ISO range...

That does not mean bad by any means, since it means better than any DSLR to date assumably, which obvious is better than 4/3, P&S and camera phones, but ... why should it be a surprise it does not equal image quality of medium format such as even 20MP Leaf back in image quality at low ISO, albeit pixel count differ... ??? :sleep006:

I am tired of these threads :OT:

 

[Graham Mitchell]

In the S2's favour, apart from points already made, it is the first body of a series and certainly has room to grow.

 

[etrump]

The D800E will match the S2 in resolution but I would be surprised if it comes close to it in terms of clarity and depth of feel. The dynamic range will be close in terms of specifications but in the mid-range will respond more like a D3x than an MF sensor. To my eye a flatter look which is tough to correct in post.

It WILL make a great backup to my MF system and at $3k very affordable. It is what it is and will probably excel at things MF is not good for such as long exposure and fast paced work where VR makes a huge difference.

 

[T.Karma]

...
Imagine my disappointment when my buddy's much less expensive Contax 645 and 22 meg Phase One back produced better files and prints (damned those fat pixels!). In addition, the NEF RAW files were the hardest to process of any I had ever encountered to date ... and trust me I know how to post process.
....

To my taste I have found that those "old" fat pixel backs look most pleasing and I often wondered why people gave them up so quickly. I would happily pick up a 6x7 camera that has a FF 9 micron chip. Maybe Phaseone should think in that direction too, not only to overpopulate an already too small 645 sized chip with more and more pixels.

With regards to the D800: It will be a winner for sure in sales numbers.
Taken all the good stuff that is in it at a very attractive price point one has to like this piece of technology.

 

[markowich]

It's not just you. I just downloaded all the D800 sample images from the Nikon website. Based on what I see here, these don't look anything like what I get with my S2. They have the look of a D300 with a lot more pixels. Missing is the per-pixel sharpness, microcontrast and texture. In fact, nothing in these images is actually sharp. I'll reserve final judgement until a controlled test can be done and we're not just looking at JPGs from CaptureNX.

David

exaclty, jpgs give very little information and nikon has a long history in publishing crap files of new cameras. i have seen NEFs (nikon d800E with nikon 24mm f1.4) and they give my S2 files a real run for the money. tonality in the S2 files is still better but acuity is very similar. color rendering is a matter of taste anyway and (mostly) can be fixed in pp.
certainly the S2 lenses beat the nikons but it will take leica another 10 years to set up a reasonably complete system and who knows how long to get up to date as far as camera electronics is concerned.
i shall be dumping the S2 very soon and use the nikon d800E or, if real quality is desired, the IQ180 on my alpa system.
same for M, time for me to de-leicanize. will keep my MP though....
peter

 

[tjv]

Gotta admit, those official RAW samples are pretty f-ing amazing. Especially the one shot with the 35mm lens. Matches up perfectly with the tests I did with the S2 when I had one on loan a year or so ago. An awesome camera, that's for sure. If only money grew on trees, then I'd buy an S2 AND D800E and let you know which one wins the shootout!

you guys must be joking right?
Take a look at S2's raw files:

LEICA Camera AG - S2 RAW

and maybe some photos from its users:

Church of the Good Sheperd

or:

Omo valley - ethiopia

D800E can match that how?

 

[fotografz]

it will be super interesting to see Nikon D800 VS Leica S2

Nikon only cost 1/10 price 36MP vs 37.5MP

Even more fun, Leica R vs Leica S lens
if use lens adapter to use Leica R lens on D800 vs Leica S2oke:

Interesting? Sounds super boring to me.

But, hey, I like an "all-in-good-fun" dog fight from time-to-time.

There's always some delusional little doggy that thinks it can take on the big dog ... :ROTFL:

We've nick-named the little Chihuaua/mix "Nikon" ...

BTW, these were shot with a S2 and 180mm hand-held without a slew of AF points or VR for those that think it has to be glued to a tripod or is too slow to get the shots

-Marc

 

[David Duffin]

Interesting? Sounds super boring to me.

But, hey, I like an "all-in-good-fun" dog fight from time-to-time.

There's always some delusional little doggy that thinks it can take on the big dog ... :ROTFL:

We've nick-named the little Chihuaua/mix "Nikon" ...

-Marc

+1 Marc. And a good tongue-in-cheek chuckle...

 

[Stuart Richardson]

I have printed exhibitions from people using the D7000, and I was very impressed by the image quality. It is an exceptionally good DSLR! I am sure the D800 will be even more excellent if you pair it with the right lenses. That said, I also use an S2 and have printed large (1m+) prints from it. The S2 is so far beyond any camera I have ever used or printed from that it is quite staggering. I say this as a custom printer who makes prints from many different cameras on a daily basis. Everyone knows the lenses in the S2 are spectacularly good, but it is not just that -- having the whole system built from the ground up to accommodate 40mp+ is a tremendous advantage. The precision needed to extract the most out of this much resolution is extremely high, in everything from the body frame, focusing screen, mounting hardware, AF sensors and motors... Based on my experience with Nikon's modern zooms and the D3, frankly I think it is beyond the capability of Nikon's current lenses and manufacturing tolerance. We'll see. This is not to say you won't get very good files, but a real 36 MP on most shots? I sincerely doubt it. Don't even think of mounting anything on it other than Nikon's absolute cream of the crop, as even those are going to be a stretch.

But, I will be considered biased since I am an S2 owner. Suffice to say, I really don't care! The S2 is so good that other (digital) cameras don't even really register on my radar anymore.

 

[markowich]

In the S2's favour, apart from points already made, it is the first body of a series and certainly has room to grow.

grow....hmmmm. in terms of euros over image quality it should not grow to much any more. and since leica's development times act on cosmological time scales the next S3 (?) body might come out after the next five economic crisis have already subsided.
but then iso 400 will certainly be fully useable...-----)))
peter

 

[Paratom]

grow....hmmmm. in terms of euros over image quality it should not grow to much any more. and since leica's development times act on cosmological time scales the next S3 (?) body might come out after the next five economic crisis have already subsided.
but then iso 400 will certainly be fully useable...-----)))
peter

Hi Peter-did you have problems usig ISO400?

 

[doug]

... i shall be dumping the S2 very soon ....

My trash can's as good as yours

 

[jonoslack]

i shall be dumping the S2 very soon and use the nikon d800E or, if real quality is desired, the IQ180 on my alpa system.
same for M, time for me to de-leicanize. will keep my MP though....
peter

My trash can's as good as yours

Okay Doug - you can have Peter's S stuff - Peter - please can you dump your M stuff in my bin

P.S. I hope you and yours are all well - long time no speak - your black 50 'lux is still my most used lens.

all the best

 

[johnnygoesdigital]

Perhaps the comparison should be the S2 vs the Pentax 645D, There both MFD, and the price difference is huge and their both weather sealed.

 

[markowich]

Hi Peter-did you have problems usig ISO400?

as a matter of fact i really dislike the noise pattern. same with M9. looks like D3s at iso25600.
peter

 

[markowich]

Okay Doug - you can have Peter's S stuff - Peter - please can you dump your M stuff in my bin

P.S. I hope you and yours are all well - long time no speak - your black 50 'lux is still my most used lens.





all the best

jono, all ok thanks. good to hear you still like the 50mm LUX!
p

 

[fotografz]

I have printed exhibitions from people using the D7000, and I was very impressed by the image quality. It is an exceptionally good DSLR! I am sure the D800 will be even more excellent if you pair it with the right lenses. That said, I also use an S2 and have printed large (1m+) prints from it. The S2 is so far beyond any camera I have ever used or printed from that it is quite staggering. I say this as a custom printer who makes prints from many different cameras on a daily basis. Everyone knows the lenses in the S2 are spectacularly good, but it is not just that -- having the whole system built from the ground up to accommodate 40mp+ is a tremendous advantage. The precision needed to extract the most out of this much resolution is extremely high, in everything from the body frame, focusing screen, mounting hardware, AF sensors and motors... Based on my experience with Nikon's modern zooms and the D3, frankly I think it is beyond the capability of Nikon's current lenses and manufacturing tolerance. We'll see. This is not to say you won't get very good files, but a real 36 MP on most shots? I sincerely doubt it. Don't even think of mounting anything on it other than Nikon's absolute cream of the crop, as even those are going to be a stretch.

But, I will be considered biased since I am an S2 owner. Suffice to say, I really don't care! The S2 is so good that other (digital) cameras don't even really register on my radar anymore.

Yep.

The S2 was designed from the ground-up, and is the only MF system that isn't playing catch-up with modern high res sensors ... in fact the sensor has plenty of room to grow into the lenses. You can bolt on legacy lenses for certain creative characteristics if desired, but you aren't forced to deal with re-worked film era optics for more demanding applications. I'd say the S2 lenses have more to do with high resolution impression in final prints than the meg count does ... and prints/reproduction is what counts when we are talking this level of performance.

This was for a series of posters to be printed 30" X 40" which the S2 does without breaking sweat ... check the "Hairy Knuckle" crop (even though a sub 1 meg web pic doesn't do it justice). For crying out loud, you could take this guy's finger prints from this shot

-Marc

 

[johnnygoesdigital]

It's understandable that the S2 owners are going be biased...they have to What's the big deal, I mean we're comparing a 35mm beta version D800 using a zoom lens, with an S2. Why the diatribe about its performance? Lenses are obviously the weak link, and yes, the Leica's are legendary, but also because of cost! When the final production D800e is available using Nikon's best prime with prints at standard sizes, then people can compare, perhaps this discussion is premature.

 

[T.Karma]

We've nick-named the little Chihuaua/mix "Nikon" ...

BTW, these were shot with a S2 and 180mm hand-held without a slew of AF points or VR for those that think it has to be glued to a tripod or is too slow to get the shots

-Marc

Very cute, indeed!
So, professional photographers can read the minds of cameras?
I wonder what all the point and shoots would be thinking then, watching this dog fight.
Maybe they would attack in hordes. lol