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More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Re: More file for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

It is really hard to continue believing in MF after the introduction of the D800. IQ seems to be stunning and wight factor, lens choices and price make up for the rest.
 

doug

Well-known member
Re: More file for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

Two words I think are being over-used are 'stunning' and 'amazing'. It's electronic stuff; higher pixel counts are pretty much inevitable sooner or later, I don't see what's stunning or amazing about that.

I'd like to see some direct comparisons before writing off medium format.
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
Re: More file for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

Two words I think are being over-used are 'stunning' and 'amazing'. It's electronic stuff; higher pixel counts are pretty much inevitable sooner or later, I don't see what's stunning or amazing about that.

I'd like to see some direct comparisons before writing off medium format.

+ 1
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Re: More file for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

The question is neither if the Nikon is stunning or if it's cheaper. There will probably always be a difference, although it may be subtle. The question is if those making MF sensors and cameras can keep up with the development pace of Sony, Nikon and Canon.

In a few years, when the 35mm sensor approach 100MP with clean ISO beyond what anybody needs, will there still be enough photographers out there willing to pay many times as much for even more megapixels and that subtle difference? Enough to keep several MF sensor and camera manufacturers alive?

To me, Leica looks like the most obvious survivor. They sell a different user experience and a product with unquestionable qualities in several areas. The others will have to fight for the second position, and I doubt that there will be a third place, unless a couple of them team up with the likes of Sony or Canon.

But what do I know? I'm still at 12MP and 35mm film :loco: :ROTFL:
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
Re: More file for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

Well, I am all for waiting to see how the soup tastes but I have ordered a D800 and I must say that DXO rated the D7000 sensor as having a tad more DR than the IQ180. For me (I hate shooting with grad filters) DR is the single most important thing, provided that other parameters 'satisfice'.

I had a D7000 and got rid of it because (nearly) all the DX glass was terrible and there seemed little point in using FX sized glass on a DX body. But the files were just fine. Maybe a little more granular than I'd like but switch to 50% zoom (about the same as the minimum res I'd print to) and that disappeard.

If, as I have read, the D800 files are at least as good as the D7000 but with more resolution and given that I have ordered the E version, I will state that though I am not expecting the system to obviate the need for MF, I am not ruling that possibility out completely. Mostly, but not completely.


ps look at Jim Brandenberg's blog, date 7th Feb 2012, the quote in white italics. This guy has very serious pedigree and his thoughts are clear...

http://jimbrandenburg.blogspot.com/
 

Shashin

Well-known member
Re: More file for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

ps look at Jim Brandenberg's blog, date 7th Feb 2012, the quote in white italics. This guy has very serious pedigree and his thoughts are clear...

Jim Brandenburg
And if someone thinks a 35mm chip will make an image just like a 4x5 view camera, then they should buy it. I notice a lot of these comments are folks coming from 35mm, not from other larger formats.
 

doug

Well-known member
Re: More file for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

ps look at Jim Brandenberg's blog, date 7th Feb 2012, the quote in white italics. This guy has very serious pedigree and his thoughts are clear...

Jim Brandenburg
If these 100% crops are typical I don't think medium format will disappear any time soon. These crops lack the rich color and detail I've been seeing in the S2 (for example) photos posted here and at reddotforum. Maybe the detail in Brandenburg's photos is limited by the lens, maybe by the slow shutter speed, but I don't see the results so far are comparable to medium format digital.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
It is not the camera or the sensor that appears to be winner here but a decently priced zoom and despite going past diffraction limits being capable of producing quite a bit detail.
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
Re: More file for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

And if someone thinks a 35mm chip will make an image just like a 4x5 view camera, then they should buy it. I notice a lot of these comments are folks coming from 35mm, not from other larger formats.
Never say never... think back a few years to when MF film fans were screaming and sneering at the chance that ANY sensor would ever rival 4 x 5 film...
 

Shashin

Well-known member
It is Deja Vu all over again. Wasn't there a run on Phase One and Leaf backs when 35mm cameras had 24MP sensors? When Sony released the A77 and Nex 7, wasn't the market flooded with those 24MP 35mm cameras like the A900? And if you have been around for some time, then you know that medium- and large-fomat film took a big hit when Technical Pan was released claiming 35mm could have the same quality as a 4x5.

Naturally, the most important factor in image quality is the resolving power of the media. When the iPhone hits 60MP, we will all be saved and we can also surf the internet to confirm how smart we all are.
 

doug

Well-known member
It is not the camera or the sensor that appears to be winner here but a decently priced zoom and despite going past diffraction limits being capable of producing quite a bit detail.
I'm not impressed with the detail it's producing in Brandenburg's photo. Maybe I've been using Leica APO lenses too long to be impressed.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
Re: More file for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

Never say never... think back a few years to when MF film fans were screaming and sneering at the chance that ANY sensor would ever rival 4 x 5 film...
Rival in what way? I shot MFD and it has replaced my medium-format film cameras. I don't really see it as an equivalent or replacement to large format--I don't shoot large format anymore, so I am not trying to hang on or whatever reasons people have to stick to processes. There are qualities in processes/formats that are imparted to images that are not merely a result of resolution.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
I'm not that impressed with any of the images so far -- like Doug, I believe the system is pretty severely handicapped right out of the gate by limitations in worthy available glass. Will the D800 be a great camera? Yes! Will I buy one? Maybe. Will it replace my MF kit? Uh, no.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Naturally, the most important factor in image quality is the resolving power of the media. When the iPhone hits 60MP, we will all be saved and we can also surf the internet to confirm how smart we all are.
Let's not forget then, that for most people, iPhones and other small format devices have actually replaced 35mm film. How long did that take? 10-15 years?
 

Chris Giles

New member
I've a shot of my dog from a 2004 back which I know the D800 cannot produce.

Everything else the MF back cannot do I've the 1Dx incoming. That's more of a threat than the D800, larger pixels, cleaner ISO. Take the Damn AA filter off it....
 

Shashin

Well-known member
Let's not forget then, that for most people, iPhones and other small format devices have actually replaced 35mm film. How long did that take? 10-15 years?
I don't have the same interest in photography as those people. We can simply argue that that is a shift in convenience. Now if you believe a 60MP iPhone gives the same result as a 60MP MFD camera, then I would say it is a perfect solution for you.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I don't have the same interest in photography as those people. We can simply argue that that is a shift in convenience. Now if you believe a 60MP iPhone gives the same result as a 60MP MFD camera, then I would say it is a perfect solution for you.
I don't think so at all, not now anyway. But it's important to remember that most film formats smaller than traditional large sheets have been invented to make photography easier for consumers (thus increasing the markets and the profit of the camera and film manufacturers) and then worked its way to professionals. That is true for MF as well as for 35mm. It's always a question of cost vs quality, and with an accelerating technical development, it's difficult to foresee what will be available in ten or even a couple of years.

How much the extra quality is worth is rarely the decision of the photographer, at least not in a commercial context. If the client can find a photographer who can create results that are of only marginally inferior quality for a considerably lower price, not going with the more cost effective equipment can easily become a threat against the photographer's livelihood.

Look at stock photography, ten years ago the domain of a relatively small group of photographer earning healthy profits. Now, the photos are taken by tens of thousands of photographers, amateurs and pros, who sell photos at a fraction of the price, often taken with a cheap DSLR or even a p&s camera. But if you compare the technical quality of stock photos now and 15 years ago, it has improved dramatically (yes, I do buy stock photos, and most of those older than 10-15 years aren't useable without compromising the quality requirements of the clients).
 
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