Does 41 Mpix count as Medium format ?

[Stefan Steib]

Of course we all know that this phone will not be a substitute for a decent medium format back. I apologize for setting up this trap question, but I think this shows very clearly that innovation right now reaches a point that makes all other not REALLY innovating companies look very pale soon.
The idea of just replacing a film magazine with a digital sensor was very smart 18 years ago. Now it´s time for something new.

regards
Stefan

 

[Thierry]

I just retired.

LOL

Thierry

 

[tashley]

I just had a thought:
"Siri, go out and take some great moody landscapes for me, choose the best one, colour and curve correct it then have it printed 40" wide, mounted on aluminium and brought round. I'll be waiting. "

 

[MGrayson]

Siri: OK. I've located three photographers in your vicinity. The closest is 0.0 miles from you.

 

[tashley]

Siri: OK. I've located three photographers in your vicinity. The closest is 0.0 miles from you.

You are one smart guy!

 

[ghoonk]

Personally I think this is a better approach to solving the zoom problem on camera phones.
Ctein had an interesting article on this..

Not sure the camera is enough to save Nokia. Especially if it only runs on Symbian. Most people value other features more than the camera. Current cameras are pretty good and are good enough for most.

Personally, i think cameras and sensors are only part of a diminishing equation in the mobile photography space. What makes the iPhone stand out is not only the quality of the sensor and lens, but as importantly, the quality of apps that make those images look good, and the ease of which the images can be shared.

 

[gazwas]

We all suddenly became dinosaurs!

So when the new kids shuffle up the ranks of the photography world shooting jobs with these whizzy looking, high tech cameras and we're all still shooting Tech/Mamiya/Blads.

Just let me reload the flash with gunpowder!

 

[tashley]

We all suddenly became dinosaurs!

So when the new kids shuffle up the ranks of the photography world shooting jobs with these whizzy looking, high tech cameras and we're all still shooting Tech/Mamiya/Blads.

Just let me reload the flash with gunpowder!

But this is a serious danger: remember when Linn, the famous manufacturer of turntables, refused to get in CDs for so long because the fidelity wasn't good enough? They had to give in in the end. And then along comes mp3 and the purists howl whilst 99% of the population gets on with enjoying the convenience. There will always be a place for ultimate quality but it can be a very very small place commercially and probably more popular with enthusiasts than with the marketplace...

 

[gazwas]

But this is a serious danger: remember when Linn, the famous manufacturer of turntables, refused to get in CDs for so long because the fidelity wasn't good enough? They had to give in in the end. And then along comes mp3 and the purists howl whilst 99% of the population gets on with enjoying the convenience. There will always be a place for ultimate quality but it can be a very very small place commercially and probably more popular with enthusiasts than with the marketplace...

And what a fine player the Karik/Numeric was and something I still own.

I have noticed that marketing departments of some large respectable companies is getting younger and younger. It may be quite a few years off but eventually I'm sure the youth won't see the need/benefit of the ultimate.

 

[kdphotography]

Of course we all know that this phone will not be a substitute for a decent medium format back. I apologize for setting up this trap question, but I think this shows very clearly that innovation right now reaches a point that makes all other not REALLY innovating companies look very pale soon.
The idea of just replacing a film magazine with a digital sensor was very smart 18 years ago. Now it´s time for something new.

regards
Stefan

Geez, now you tell us Stefan. I kept looking for the right adapter/mount on your website for the Hcam, and kept wondering what type of calling plan could Stefan offer me....

:ROTFL:

 

[Stefan Steib]

Ken

you know I like to provoke, but this is what may make a lively discussion. If everybody would be soooo relaxed about this, why the excited comments ? There is always a feeling that goes beyond what people "know" and the reactions show to me that of course even the hardest hardliners know that something is happening here. Of course it is too early to tell exactly what and how fast. But one thing is for sure: Nokia and Zeiss have shown that there is more than shareholder value and keeping a company just running with valid and prooved concepts. I mean Zeiss is (or should I say was) a more conservative company with very german strategic and turnaround orientated business ideas. Just think about that. Nokia may have a hard time now but they are still one of the largest Mobile Phone makers worldwide, do you think they goof around with some funny labstuff they just release to the public when they do not have any other ideas left ?

I don´t think so !

Regards
Stefan

 

[FredBGG]

Wayne you are right, the camera alone is not the whole package. But it looks really good even if you buy this as a camera alone - here is a video about the usage that is pretty interesting:

Nokia 808 PureView Hands-On Video - YouTube!

And even if this Phone fails, the concept will go into other cameras, I´m nearly 100 % sure.

Regards
Stefan

The video is interesting.
The demonstration of Bokeh is a macro... duh..

Also his babble on zooming fails to mention the loss of resolution due to only capturing a fraction of the projected image of the lens. A lens only produces a finite amount of resolution over the projected image. 50 % Zoom by sensor cropping will lose 50% or the lenses potential resolution regardless of the format.

Now what they really need is an endoscope on cell phones....

 

[jcoffin]

50 % Zoom by sensor cropping will lose 50% or the lenses potential resolution regardless of the format.

Well, a percentage anyway. Of course, most lenses are better at the center, so the percentage of resolution lost will almost always be less than percentage of the area cropped.

 

[Stefan Steib]

I think there is a fault in your argumentations. If the lens resolves 100 % of the 41/38Mpix at no Zoom, then the resolution stays the same but only the filesize becomes smaller ! If you are only needing 5 or 8 Mpix you still have a fully sharp Image - but respectively smaller.

Regards
Stefan

 

[ondebanks]

I think there is a fault in your argumentations. If the lens resolves 100 % of the 41/38Mpix at no Zoom, then the resolution stays the same but only the filesize becomes smaller ! If you are only needing 5 or 8 Mpix you still have a fully sharp Image - but respectively smaller.

Regards
Stefan

I guess what Fred meant was that cropping into a fixed focal length image to simulate "zoom" does not match the resolution of using a longer focal length - nor its enlargeability (since you've discarded 75% of the pixels). I'd agree.


The zip-file images are indeed impressive. Poor S/N, and horrible bokeh in the closeups, but the resolution in at least one of the frames (the guy hanging by one hand) is much higher than I would have expected. Zeiss have done a good job on this lens.

And of course, it's sensor area, not pixel count, that determines if something is "medium format" or not!

Ray

 

[MaxKißler]

Totally agree with Fred. Regarding "simulated zoom": I think you all have to agree that this is a ridiculous feature... There is absolutely no benefit of a longer FL. It'd be best to capture the entire image and crop by yourself so you don't have to take the image's center.

 

[Stefan Steib]

Max

take a look at the videos, you don´t have to zoom to the center. You point a frame wherever you want and it goes in with no delay. something no optical Zoom can do. And this Phone was not made to produce 38Mpix images in the first place. You can, but actually the approach was to have a lossfree zoom with 5 or 8MPix res in a mobile phone.

Regards
Stefan

 

[Terry]

Totally agree with Fred. Regarding "simulated zoom": I think you all have to agree that this is a ridiculous feature... There is absolutely no benefit of a longer FL. It'd be best to capture the entire image and crop by yourself so you don't have to take the image's center.

Where I disagree with you is on metering. Depending on the camera, by zooming in (even digitally) you change the overall metering of the scene and depending on the light this can make a big difference. Panasonic implements this very well with their ETC mode in their cameras.

 

[MaxKißler]

I guess I should have watched the video first before making a fool out of me...

Terry you're right, I just haven't thought in mobile phone or p&s terms. It's been a while since I used anything but spot metering.

I agree that this might be an interesting device with an intelligent solution to create exceptionally good iq but I just don't get what all the fuss is about. It's just a phone. With a camera.

Sorry, I don't want to sound too negative. I welcome all improvement in digital imaging I just don't see myself ever using such a thing...

 

[proenca]

I just downloaded the samples and like someone said... blimey.

They are uber impressive.

Yes, the tones are weird and the image is soft, the tonal range is ridiculous but... blimey. the amount of data is impressive. p&s are dead. why would you take the extra hassle of carrying a p&s which gives you marginal improvements over this ?

blimey.

no it wont kill MF or other specialized cameras, neither even DSLR but for P&S, its game over