Rollei Users... 6008i?

[Shelby Lewis]

First post here..

I've been steadily heading towards MF Digital for several years and I think I'm going to be picking up a film body soon, going digital a bit later in the year with a used/refurb back.

I find the Rollei(flex!) system to be the most compelling and am probably going that direction... especially for the lenses and high-sync speed.

So my question ... coming from someone who will NOT have the money for the latest/greatest - is the 6008i a viable digital platform? Or is the 6008AF the way to go? And for those of you (Graham?) who have the 6008AF, do you actually use the AF or is manual focus easily accomplished with the viewfinder?

I've been a photographer for about 10 years, but have been brought up on small-format AF cameras... and attempted to manual focus throughout the past few years with my 5Ds with mixed success. The viewfinder just isn't crisp enough. Bright? fairly... but focus doesn't "snap". I'm also trying to slow down a bit, and especially to get away from all the OoF induced by "focus/recompose" (and the 5D is definitely a focus/recompose camera).

The short version of this post? I like Rollei, but am concerned about manual focus and will go towards 6008AF is needed.

Thanks for the thoughts...
Shelby

 

[Graham Mitchell]

The 6008i should be fine if you plan to use only manual focus lenses, and don't intend to use focus confirmation on those lenses. I just rely on the WLF for focussing and actually I have a spare 6008i which I used before I found the 6008AF. If the 6008i is cheap enough compared to the 6008AF, I'd get it and put the difference towards another lens or one of the many great accessories for the system.

 

[Graham Mitchell]

Btw, there is a great battery upgrade you can do with these systems. PM me later if you want to know more.

 

[carstenw]

Graham, isn't there some limitation to which cameras you can put digital backs on? The AF for sure, but other than that, only the latest non-AF body, IIRC. Is that the 6008i?

 

[robmac]

As an aside re: your 5D if you intend to keep it and/or use it as backup and want easier manual focus. Try using the Ee-S screen. It may need some calibration (it varies by 5D), but it will add that extra snap your MF work.

 

[Shelby Lewis]

Graham, isn't there some limitation to which cameras you can put digital backs on? The AF for sure, but other than that, only the latest non-AF body, IIRC. Is that the 6008i?

I had read something similar... but to the fact that there were intermittent problems on random bodies. Probably just mis-information, but I'd be interested in hearing if anyone here has actually used a db on a 6008i.

I do know that I see kits in good condition on eBay from time to time with the 80/2.8 PQS for around $2k - 2.5k... which isn't much more than a contax 645.

I REALLY want the 1/1000 sync, as I shoot pretty wide apertures with flash, often in bright sun.

Thanks guys,
Shelby

 

[Graham Mitchell]

Graham, isn't there some limitation to which cameras you can put digital backs on? The AF for sure, but other than that, only the latest non-AF body, IIRC. Is that the 6008i?

Don't quote me on this but you might be thinking of the Rollei P20 back which was pretty limited in terms of which models it worked with, afaik.

The Sinar backs will work with Rolleiflex 6001, 6003, 6008 prof, 6008 integral, 6008 integral 2, and 6008 AF.

 

[Graham Mitchell]

I'd be interested in hearing if anyone here has actually used a db on a 6008i.

As I wrote above, I used the Sinar back on a 6008i originally. It works fine.

I do know that I see kits in good condition on eBay from time to time with the 80/2.8 PQS for around $2k - 2.5k... which isn't much more than a contax 645.

You can do better in terms of price.

 

[Shelby Lewis]

Thanks Graham for the informed words...

I'll keep looking for deals, for sure. Do you (and anyone else!) mind giving me your thoughts on which backs would be good "starters". I'm really NOT looking for megapixels, even though the p20 would not be a choice for me. I'm more interested in the more methodical work process as well as the benefits of a large sensor with no AA.

22mp, actually, would be about perfect for my current market.

I'll be doing headshots, portraiture, and some music/fashion work.

Here in the states, there is a pretty big market for high school high-school senior portraits... and I'm in the middle of creating a fashion-based business model for seniors that includes both location and studio work. I often use flash on location. Here in tenness we've got pretty intense sun during the main season and I've often found myself shooting at f16/f22 at iso 100 (1/200th sync) with gobs of flash power/tons of depth-of-field.

Thus the need for high sync-speed.

I shoot stuff like this (ignore the overly processed skin):

(marching band member)

Thanks Again... much appreciated

 

[Graham Mitchell]

3rd shot is great!

About backs - I believe your choices are limited to Sinar and Hasselblad, and I know very little about the Hass CF range which work with adapters. Sinar makes more sense because you could later upgrade to a Hy6 body for which Sinar makes an adapter but Hasselblad doesn't. (The Hy6 takes the same Rollei lenses too, in case you didn't know). So the Sinar is worth a bit more to you for that reason. Look for a refurbished Sinar eMotion22 or eMotion54. I've had both.

 

[EH21]

The P20 was made to work on the later 6008 AF cameras and even then it needed a slight mod to add a resister to wake up the back or keep it awake. That being said, I can't figure out why this wouldn't work with the integral with a sync cable though. Anyhow they are very hard to find used. I've got one and love it but you find a sinar or hasselblad CF back for less.

 

[Shelby Lewis]

3rd shot is great!

About backs - I believe your choices are limited to Sinar and Hasselblad, and I know very little about the Hass CF range which work with adapters. Sinar makes more sense because you could later upgrade to a Hy6 body for which Sinar makes an adapter but Hasselblad doesn't. (The Hy6 takes the same Rollei lenses too, in case you didn't know). So the Sinar is worth a bit more to you for that reason. Look for a refurbished Sinar eMotion22 or eMotion54. I've had both.

Any word on where I could find a dealer for refurbs/used. Thierry might know? I see that the e22 only goes to iso200. I would like an occasional 400 if possible, just because I shoot close to dusk a lot.

Thanks again...

 

[Shelby Lewis]

The P20 was made to work on the later 6008 AF cameras and even then it needed a slight mod to add a resister to wake up the back or keep it awake. That being said, I can't figure out why this wouldn't work with the integral with a sync cable though. Anyhow they are very hard to find used. I've got one and love it but you find a sinar or hasselblad CF back for less.

Thanks... i don't think I'm going to look at the p20... crop is a bit heavy on an already "low" mp back . Still, phase makes some great products and I'm not ruling them out.

I'm intrigued by the sinar's ease of system compatibility due to the adapter plates.

Do you guys know if the Leaf Aptus22 is available for the 6008 series cams... it's another back I'm interested in... but to be honest I'm more interested in the camera platform presently than the backs... even though I know that I need some serious thought into my future back purchase. Hasselblad's new pricing is compelling, but I just don't want the slr form factor, not to mention the lack of multiple system compatibility.

 

[thsinar]

Dear Shelby,

I'm not sure where you are located. The best is to contact our distributor SBI, concerning second-hand Sinarbacks.

The eMotion 22 was effectively going up to a setting of ISO 200. But measured it is in reality a real ISO 400, when compared with other makers.
I have explained the "ISO" meaning and how it is calculated in another thread here. So the e22 has effectively 400.

If you find a Sinarback eMotion 54 LV (which is exactly the same sensor as the 22), then you will find the ISO setting going up to ISO 400.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Thierry

Any word on where I could find a dealer for refurbs/used. Thierry might know? I see that the e22 only goes to iso200. I would like an occasional 400 if possible, just because I shoot close to dusk a lot.

Thanks again...

 

[Graham Mitchell]

Do you guys know if the Leaf Aptus22 is available for the 6008 series cams...

It's not.

 

[carstenw]

Don't quote me on this but you might be thinking of the Rollei P20 back which was pretty limited in terms of which models it worked with, afaik.

The Sinar backs will work with Rolleiflex 6001, 6003, 6008 prof, 6008 integral, 6008 integral 2, and 6008 AF.

I have no owned a 6008, as you know, so I have no first-hand knowledge. I did look into it at one point, and still consider it. I read a bunch of stuff about the compatibility of MF backs with the 6008-series, and I think that the 6008i2 and 6008AF have extra features to support backs. I will try to find a link...

 

[Graham Mitchell]

Carsten, it makes no difference as far as the Sinar backs go, afaik. There is a mechanical adapter, and the flash sync cable. I suspect it is exactly the same with the Hass CF backs.

 

[Stuart Richardson]

I used to use a 6008AF, and I recently switched to a Hy6 54LV package that I found used. This total system cost was around 13,000 dollars (without lenses) -- I think if you look around and actually ask dealers, you might find that a newer back and body combo is available for less than you thought. I thought that such a combo would be over 17-20 thousand. I was wrong (and lucky). The Hy6 is about 4500 in the US, body only. This is not THAT much more than the used cost of a 6008AF (it's about double, but in the grand scheme of things, I think the Hy6 is at least twice the camera). While the 6008AF is a really excellent camera, the Hy6 is much better, especially if you are going to shoot digital. The ergonomics are much better (and they are good in the AF), camera to back integration is higher, AF performance is faster and more accurate, the viewfinder is better, the battery life is DRAMATICALLY better (and lithium), and the camera as a whole is smaller and lighter. I just wish it were painted black . I don't mean to demean the 6008AF at all, it is truly a capable camera and one of the best medium format cameras there is, but if you are planning to shoot digital, the body is your cheapest expense -- get the best body, as it is the steering wheel of the car as it were. It does not matter if you have a ferrari engine if you have the turning ratio of a vanagon.

 

[carstenw]

Here is one link which mentions that the AF (and the integral 2 by extension, which as far as I know is just an AF without autofocus...) had the entire electronics redesigned. Unfortunately they don't go into more detail...

http://www.adorama.com/RL6008AF.html

Here is another link where someone mentions that the AF has better flash control than the 6008i...

http://photo.net/medium-format-photography-forum/004ACi

But I can't find my original link, so no more details than that.