Digital Bronica ETRSi?

[David A]

Hi all, first posted question.

Right, I have a Bronica ETRSi, ok ok I know it’s old, but I like the way it works and feels. It doesn’t have any special bells and whistles it’s even got 2 twisty rings on the lenses for altering the aperture and focusing. :ROTFL:

I meter either using a Minolta Flash Meter IV or using an AE-III prism which has full-area average metering, spot metering or manual. It does have TTL flash metering though and thats it. So none of the latest multi this or that.

Lenses range from 40mm to 500mm (about the size and weight of a bazooka). I also use a Metz 50 MZ-5. At present I scan my film using a Nikon Coolscan 8000 ED.

Would I part with any of it? No.

Would I like to be able to shoot digital with it? Yes, at moment finances are stretched and I’m just an amateur user in the UK but would love to know more about digital medium format.

I’ve seen so many different backs been used here, some on brand new camera systems, some on older systems and the imagery just blows you away, then when you look at the list of supported systems it just gets confusing. Bronica is mentioned rarely if at all. Then you hear adapter plates been mentioned either by the back maker themselves or third party. Silvestri have one listed here in the UK for the Bronica, but that’s it, nothing about any cabling or triggering methods needed. It seems different backs need different methods to work.

http://www.silvestricamera.it/eng/prodotti_eng/adapters/adapters.htm#bronica

What it seems to do is act as a Hasselblad type attachment, would this be the V fitting? I take it it’s trying to make the fittings on the back think it’s attaching to a nice Hasselblad instead of a small ETRSi. So I take it the back would have to be a V fitting type back to fit? But wouldn’t this affect the focusing? If the back thinks it’s going on the back of a Hasselblad then the plane of focus would be for a Hasselblad, if you introduce an adapter plate into the equation wouldn’t that shift the plane of focus out because of the thickness of the plate? So what you’re focusing on in the viewfinder will be slightly different at the actual sensor location? Does this make sense?

Then comes the question of how the back knows you actually want to take a photo, in the film days it was remove dark slide shoot wind on next frame ready to be exposed, shoot wind on and so on. On the Bronica it is all done with pins and wind on gears going into the film back so the film back knew what was happening. With a digital back these pins and gears will be useless because everything is electronic so some sort of cable must be used. This is where it gets confusing again, I’ve heard of duel cable releases and wake up cables, cables that attach to the flash synch socket and so on.

Would it be possible to take a P20 or whatever Refurbished and put it on the back of a Bronica? If so what would it need in the way of cabling to actually work? Or any other make of back for that matter.

Then it comes to software??? It seems that some of the software for these backs want to know so much about the camera and lens system they are attached to you can almost hear wedding bells. I doubt some of this software has even heard the name Bronica let alone knows what to do with it. Do I mind that an EXIF file isn’t filled with the amount of data that these things can produce? No because the data can be edited in Lightroom or whatever if I really need it, as long as it can show me the date taken then I’ll be happy. Lens used aperture used metering pattern used shutter speed used wind speed and direction don’t really matter because it’s the photo that counts.

So, can a modern digital back be fitted onto something as old and manual as an ETRSi? If so what type and how? What sort of results would I obtain from such an old system? Bare in mind that I’m in the UK.

I’ve been reading this forum for some time now and just recently joined, it seems to me as though this is a place you can feel comfortable coming to. It doesn’t feel the sort of place that you get your head shot off because you’re not using this “brand” or that “brand” you get real people with real questions answered by real people in a professional manner, with some humor chucked in as well.

As i said I'm new to posting so if it seems as though I've dragged on or repeated myself its nerves so please forgive me.

David Amos

 

[Bob]

Welcome David,
We only chew off the heads of trolls here
I see the silvestri adapter you link to and it looks like it ought to work with a back such as the Phase or other as long as it is a Hassy version. I am guessing that a more detailed discussion with someone deeply involved in the particular line of backs might be necessary to confirm the capability as well as any side-effects there might be. What I mean by side effects, is that some backs, such as the Phase, might need a special cable to wake up the back prior to capture. I understand that others don't.

Your results should be fine consistent with the quality of lenses in your collection. Digital backs, especially those with higher resolution, put heavy demands on sharpness, that is if you are a pixel-peeper like me.
Perhaps there is a dealer who might lend you a back for a short while so that you could try it out.
I routinely use my P45+ on a Horseman SWD-II which is possibly more manual than your Bronica.
-bob

 

[jlm]

i have used my hassey CFV back on the Horseman: you set the back via setup menu to flash synch and connect the flash synch connection on the lens to the flash synch connection on the back. when you trip the shutter, the back makes an image. All the adapter plates ensure is that the sensor plane falls where the film image plane was. some of the other backs may require dual shutter releases...one to 'wake up the back", then one to trip the shutter.

 

[FromJapan]

Hi David,

User 'shutay' on the Luminous Landscape forum uses a Bronica SQ-B with a Hasselblad Ixpress V96C. He has quite a few informative posts on using this system.You might want to ask over there.

Cheers,
Kumar

 

[thsinar]

Dear David,

FYI: all the Sinarbacks 1st and 2nd generation do support the Bronica SQ-A / SQ-Ai as well as the Bronica ETR-Si cameras. These are:

- Sinarback 22 (4 MPx), FO interface, discontinued but can be found second-hand

- Sinarback 43 (11 MPx), FW interface, discontinued but can be found second-hand

- Sinarback 44 (16 MPx), FO interface, discontinued but can be found second-hand

- Sinarback 54 S (single-shot) or 54 H (multi-shot), (22 MPx), FO interface, discontinued but can be found second-hand

- Sinarback 54 S (single-shot) or 54 H (multi-shot), (22 MPx), FW interface, discontinued but can be found second-hand or re-furbished (SB 54 H)

All these backs and the Bronica cameras above are supported by Sinar CaptureShop 4.x.x. and CaptureShop 5.x.x

Best regards,
Thierry

So, can a modern digital back be fitted onto something as old and manual as an ETRSi? If so what type and how? What sort of results would I obtain from such an old system? Bare in mind that I’m in the UK.

David Amos

 

[yaya]

Hello David and welcome on board,

Both Silvestri and KaptureGroup produce adapter plates for the ETRSi as well as for the SQA. Current Leaf backs in V mount require only a short lens-to-back sync cable to operate, much like on a V-series blad or any other manual camera.
Date and time of capture are recorded into the EXIF data.

On the back's LCD as well as in LeafCapture 11 there is a Bronica choice listed in the camera settings.

Both of our UK dealers can demonstrate a Leaf back on your ETRSi and the adapters can be ordered through them

Good luck!

Yair

 

[David A]

Wow thanks for all the help here.

So even though my camera might be quite old, it’s possible to take one of these modern backs, put it onto the back of it and tell the back that it’s on a Bronica without it throwing a strop for been on something so basic and not modern as long as a sync cable is attached? Would this cable plug into the cameras flash synch socket, the socket that would usually fire studio flash units?

Yair I’ve taken a look at Leaf Aptus range and they all mention as cameras supported the ETRSi, I take it the back will need the adapter plate to function, Leaf don’t produce their own fitting for this camera?

One of the things that still bugs me though is the film plane, if you add adapter plates and such like wouldn’t this be altered therefore focus would be slightly out? If you have a back for the Hasselblad the sensor is in the exact place of the film plane of a Hasselblad, or am I getting it slightly wrong, the adapter plate might be making up for the difference, ie the Bronica film plane might be set back further than a Hasselblad therefore the plate is pushing the sensor back to match the position of the film plane of the Bronica

Finding places that might sell second hand or reconditioned backs over here isn’t easy, there doesn’t seem to be as many outlets.

Again, thank you all for your help.

David Amos

 

[lance_schad]

The Phase One V-Series mount backs work via the two adapters mentioned (KG and Sivestri) in two shot mode. You will have to wake the back up first via similar as if the back was used on a technical camera system.
This is not the most elegant solution if you are shooting hand held, but works.

Lance

 

[thsinar]

David,

- With the mentioned Sinarbacks you are free to mount the digital back to any other platform/brand later, if deciding to change.

- no need then to use the back only on a Hasselbald V camera.

- Sinar has this difference with "dedicated" backs, that it does offer different adapters for the most common MF platforms (Mamiya 645 AFD, RZ, Contax 645, Hasselblad V and H1/H2, Sinar m, Sinar Hy6, Leaf AFi, etc ...).

- To change from one adapter to another takes a couple of minutes.

- No wake-up necessary

Best regards,
Thierry

Wow thanks for all the help here.

So even though my camera might be quite old, it’s possible to take one of these modern backs, put it onto the back of it and tell the back that it’s on a Bronica without it throwing a strop for been on something so basic and not modern as long as a sync cable is attached? Would this cable plug into the cameras flash synch socket, the socket that would usually fire studio flash units?

Yair I’ve taken a look at Leaf Aptus range and they all mention as cameras supported the ETRSi, I take it the back will need the adapter plate to function, Leaf don’t produce their own fitting for this camera?

One of the things that still bugs me though is the film plane, if you add adapter plates and such like wouldn’t this be altered therefore focus would be slightly out? If you have a back for the Hasselblad the sensor is in the exact place of the film plane of a Hasselblad, or am I getting it slightly wrong, the adapter plate might be making up for the difference, ie the Bronica film plane might be set back further than a Hasselblad therefore the plate is pushing the sensor back to match the position of the film plane of the Bronica

Finding places that might sell second hand or reconditioned backs over here isn’t easy, there doesn’t seem to be as many outlets.

Again, thank you all for your help.

David Amos