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Fiction from Phase One.

kdphotography

Well-known member
I missed the "fiction" from Phase One part of the video. I was expecting at least some exciting marketing hyperbole, but only saw a boring demonstration of autofocus with the DF body and a LS lens, and nothing out of the ordinary.

How about autofocus on charging elephants, who then stand on the IQ back....
 

FredBGG

Not Available
Anyone notice how the slide show is accelerated a wee bit too... just for good measure.

The Fiction is that there is no way that the DF can achieve accurate tracking focus in a situation like this with three focus points on the belly button of the subject.

But the real bullshit is that in order to achieve this speed of AF you have to set the CF for focus speed to fast and Phase One recommends shooting at at least f8 when using fast focus custom setting.... It's in the manual.
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
Based on personal experience I don't see the fiction. My personal experience is based on using it last year in Jackson WY to shoot wildlife such as mountain sheep, buffalo, elk and the occasional eagle. None of which stayed in one place for very long posing.
 

gazwas

Active member
Very misleading as it appears to show the DF focus tracking a person moving towards the camera in continuous shutter mode.

I would love to see those photos in high res.
Have you got some axe to grind about Phase One?

I'm not sure of the point your trying to make or the reason to dislike what is at the end of the day a marketing video. To me it seems to be a pretty standard setup that's not really worth getting worked up about.

Do you work for Hasselblad or something?
 

FredBGG

Not Available
Based on personal experience I don't see the fiction. My personal experience is based on using it last year in Jackson WY to shoot wildlife such as mountain sheep, buffalo, elk and the occasional eagle. None of which stayed in one place for very long posing.
I would love to see a sequence of shots of wild life heading towards you and shot in continuous at f2.8

I have tried a few times with a model walking towards camera at a regular pace.
No luck at all.

Don't get me wrong... I'd be very happy if it worked!
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
Sorry to disappoint, however I shot outdoors in either early morning or late afternoon and found no real reason to shoot at f/2.8.
 

FredBGG

Not Available
Have you got some axe to grind about Phase One?

I'm not sure of the point your trying to make or the reason to dislike what is at the end of the day a marketing video. To me it seems to be a pretty standard setup that's not really worth getting worked up about.

Do you work for Hasselblad or something?
Nope don't work with or worship any particular brand.

But for a full disclosure I was the testimonial for Polaroid professional large format advertising for which I received mini van loads of 8x10 polaroid for quite a few years for replacing photo with polaroid in my editorial photocredits. I have also been sponsored by Elinchrom, consulted with Manfrotto and a few more.

I have plenty of praise for Phase One image quality.

I actually asked Phase One to be able to use a Phase One demo photo to illustrate the IQ180 back and Schneider superiority. I got no reply.
 

FredBGG

Not Available
Sorry to disappoint, however I shot outdoors in either early morning or late afternoon and found no real reason to shoot at f/2.8.
Well then your previous reply has no relevance to the discussion. I clearly stated the f stop being used in the video.
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
Boy, what would we do without all this fancy-schmancy technology? :p

It wasn't that long ago that I was shooting weddings with the 1st gen Mamiya 645AF and 645AFD with a slow moving bride. Granted it wasn't at f/2.8 but then again the DF and an IQ series back are much much faster to lock focus! My familiarity with previous generation bodies probably helps, but I just don't see anything extraordinary in this Phase video.

The Phase DF, LS lens and IQ series back are quite a bit faster, and if I recall from the video, flash sync is at 1/800. Use of the studio strobes helps to freeze movement---a bit harder with wildlife. Hey, it's not too late to upgrade to an IQ series back! :D

In this type of photography situation, you don't need to get every shot in focus; you need just enough to complete the project.
 

gazwas

Active member
I have tried a few times with a model walking towards camera at a regular pace.
No luck at all.

Don't get me wrong... I'd be very happy if it worked!
So, deciphering your post you're basically saying......

...... with the DF and LS lenses the camera does not have any form of predictive AF function. eg. Due to the shutter lag, by the time the shutter fires in the LS lens the subjest has moved out of the focus zone when shooting wide open at f2.8 and the subject is moving directly towards the camera?
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
Well then your previous reply has no relevance to the discussion. I clearly stated the f stop being used in the video.
I've reread your original post where you state that Phase is producing fiction in their video. You state that Phase is misleading. No where did you state the f/stop.

I then reread your post #3. Once again you fail to make mention of f/2.8 while keeping with the allusion that Phase's video is fiction.

Not until post #6 do you include f/2.8. Using a portion of my reply you state your request of "I would love to see a sequence of shots of wild life heading towards you and shot in continuous at f2.8".

The response in post #7 was made in response to your post.

Now I have a question for you Fred. I've been free in sharing direct hands on experience using Phase One products. I've been a very happy user of Phase One backs for many years as well as their camera systems. All with little to no problems in my field of work. What direct hands on experience have you had with the same and for how long?

I'm not asking what you've read or seen on a video - I'm asking for direct hands on experience using Phase One equipment.

I've no ax to grind here other than the fact I've seen too many threads where misinformation is being given as fact. Everyone is entitled to express their thoughts based on actual experience however when it's given as fact with no real experience of the product then it's very misleading.
 

FredBGG

Not Available
Over 30 years of experience shooting fashion, beauty and portraits of famous people.
I have owned many cameras including the Phase One DF and digital back etc etc etc.
I have also rented so my experience is not based on just the equipment I own or owned.

One thing that I can say for sure is that I don't love equipment. I consider equipment tools, but do treat them with respect.

One thing I dislike a lot is marketing BS. it is made worse these days with disinformation on the net and how far it can go in either direction.

Now if you were to ask me if there is a better MF body than the Phase One DF I would say not significantly.

However I have to say that Hasselblad unlike Phase/Mamiya is far more realistic in their marketing claims. For example regarding their true focus they published a paper fully describing it's limitations.

Why do I care... well I have seen quite a few photographers, especially younger ones taken for a ride and convinced to buy expensive gear to only later find out that so many of the marketing claims are way over stated.
 

gazwas

Active member
One thing I dislike a lot is marketing BS. it is made worse these days with disinformation on the net and how far it can go in either direction.
Not trying to be cute but have you not chosen the wrong career (being a celebrity photographer) if you hate marketing BS. In my experience photography in general is one big melting pot of marketing BS and why companies employ photographers in the first place to fluff up their products.

As for celebrities............ :)loco: stereotype)

IMO Phase One on the whole are very good at marketing what is a relatively new player in photography and have developed an excellent reputation for making extremely good photographic tools. They don't trade on their heritage as they don't have any. If that involves a little fluff and theatrics along the way, then that is ok by me as I'd never buy such an expensive piece of equipment without having tried it first to discover for myself if it ticks all the required boxes. If it doesn't work, I don't buy it and young or old, arranging a demo through a dealer is very easy to organise.

Why do I care... well I have seen quite a few photographers, especially younger ones taken for a ride and convinced to buy expensive gear to only later find out that so many of the marketing claims are way over stated.
Not sure what convincing you've experienced/been told about Phase One dealers but that has never happened to me or people I know who shoot MFD. Every step of the way, my dealer encouraged me to TRY, TRY, TRY (Blad, Phase, Leaf) because he knew how good the product was he was selling. If I was spending the type of money involved in MFD purchase without being allowed a demo, alarm bells would have rang.
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
Fred

Sorry, however you yourself stated "I clearly stated the f stop being used in the video", not what was on the video. You never clearly stated the f/stop. This is yet another demonstration of how words become tangled and thoughts misconstrued.

Thank you for sharing your personal experience as it helps put things into perspective. I too agree that there are too many photographers who might take things at face value which is the reason I try to always include that the information I share is from my own personal experience.

There can be a general tenacity for hyperbole when discussing our photographic equipment. It gets old fast when reading mine's better, or mine's bigger, or yours isn't good enough. While it doesn't happen much here it does occasionally get through. And that's why I like open and honest discussions based on fact. Factual discussion of a product based on real life experience not anecdotal experience is what is needed. When we fail to give actual experience we become no better than marketing hypes.

If you ask me (which no one has) most all marketing claims miss the mark. Will I get brighter teeth, better gas mileage or save $500 by switching my car insurance? The same goes with camera manufactures. The claims are what draws the person into a dealer to see for themselves what the product is capable of producing. The ones who are in real danger are those who believe everything they read on the internet without trying it themselves.

I choose Phase One for a very simple reason. It works for me. I tried Hasselblad and found it didn't. Both make claims. In my opinion both make great gear.

Going back full circle here. Making a statement that a manufacture (this time Phase One) is producing fiction is misleading as it gives the reader the idea that the author thinks Phase One is out to mislead the public. It also makes the reader think the author has a chip on his/her shoulder and an ax to grind.

This will shock you Fred- I agree with you. I too consider my equipment tools. It's these same tools that allow me to capture stunning landscape images and sell them at a huge profit.

Cheers
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Fred hate too tell ya but I do it all the time with runway work and the Mamiya 300 4.5 on continuous AF and does a very good job of it actually. Now I have not seen the video so won't comment but I have posted this in digital reviews mostly under the threads about sensor plus which is mostly all runway with models walking the cat walk. I have had a huge success rate. Yes the focuso point mostly falls right at the belly area which in most cases is on the same focal plane. Would I like that focus point spread further out, no question but it does work. Also the DF the shutter lag has been GREATLY improved over the AFD. It's almost not noticeable not Nikon/Canon fast but actually very good.
 

johnnygoesdigital

New member
Sometimes people have opinions based on real world experience because sometimes the marketing hype isn't accurate either. One on which I posted, was about Hasselblad advertising the use of an H3D/31 with micro-lenses, on a view camera. Well, unless you don't plan on using rise/fall, tilt/shift, then I guess you could, but who would? Misleading? Absolutely! It's nothing new with MFD. It's not so much the hype as the responses from brandwashed customers that are more colorful, and fun to read! Good work Fred! :) Please note smiley face to defuse the usual suspects, as this apparently, is the only way to convey tone and intent.
 
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