HD40 vs S2 vs D800 - found this test which may be of interest

[bensonga]

Yeah... but I'm back in Doctoral studies (with 3 kids) and don't have the $$$ to just add a system. All of a sudden, the Nikon looks super compelling whereas before I wouldn't give it a second thought.

Choosing whether to replace the RZ/Aptus with the Nikon D800 or a tech cam....now that would be a much tougher decision.

Honestly, I hate those kinds of decisions....which is why I try my best to never make them.

Keep the existing system and add another, that's my motto....and for as long as I can afford it, I'm sticking with it!

Gary

 

[Shelby Lewis]

...maybe.

That's the scary part...

 

[johnnygoesdigital]

What about PC lenses and the D800? Has anyone posted those experiences yet?

 

[bensonga]

What about PC lenses and the D800? Has anyone posted those experiences yet?

None that I've seen.

 

[Shashin]

Yeah... but I'm back in Doctoral studies (with 3 kids) and don't have the $$$ to just add a system. All of a sudden, the Nikon looks super compelling whereas before I wouldn't give it a second thought.

I've been looking through D800 samples on 500px.com and, all in all, they don't have the dimensionality of my aptus that I can usually see even in web sized shots, but they do look nice.

How difficult is it to get your back to work on a Mamiya 645 body? It might be a less expensive way to go wide.

 

[Shelby Lewis]

How difficult is it to get your back to work on a Mamiya 645 body? It might be a less expensive way to go wide.

It'll bolt right on (I started on an afd III) since it's mamiya mount... and I considered that... still am. But the 28mm (which is what I'd probably need) is at least $4K. Add a cheap body, a few other primes and you're still back in (for me) big dollar land.

I don't want to get this whole thread too OT with my gear concerns... sorry if I've done so.

 

[aboudd]

Interesting reading, seems like a fair appraisal. Being a Leica fan since I owned the R8s and Leica glass, I chose the path of the S2. I've used the D3x with both Nikon and Zeiss glass, but to my taste (and it may be biased) the S2 with Leica glass is a stellar performer.

S2, 35MM Summarit, 1/90 @ 4.8, handheld

 

[tjv]

Maybe I'm wrong, but Leica's decision to go with an oversized sensor, despite the costs associated with R&D and to use current technology etc, seems to be a smart LONG TERM plan. I say this because they have room to move with regards to pixel count and building their lens system compared to legacy 35mm systems that seem, on the surface of things at least, to be at or reaching their technical limit. I guess all this means that the lucky few who can afford the S2 are effectively helping Leica build a system that in the fullness of time MIGHT be the new "full frame" standard. I can see APS-C cameras being the normal for advanced amateur use – especially with cameras like the NEX etc. How long do you think it will take for Nikon or more probably Canon to release a new larger sensor system camera, a la the S2, to showcase their knowhow and technology?

 

[paulraphael]

How long do you think it will take for Nikon or more probably Canon to release a new larger sensor system camera, a la the S2, to showcase their knowhow and technology?

I don't know. That would seem a pretty radical move from a company like Nikon, whose central idea is a camera system that lets you keep your lenses no matter what comes next. They'd basically be reinventing themselves as a company.

In this regard it seems easier for a company to introduce a smaller format (Nikon's DX cameras, Leica's S2) than a larger one. You make a bigger sensor, you require all new lens technology, and your customers need to reinvest in everything.

Not saying it couldn't happen (who knows?) but it would be a big deal strategically, and probably beyond the ability of any of us to speculate. I do like the idea, if it means Nikon's R&D and economies of scale being used to make MF more economical.

 

[fotografz]

Maybe I'm wrong, but Leica's decision to go with an oversized sensor, despite the costs associated with R&D and to use current technology etc, seems to be a smart ... How long do you think it will take for Nikon or more probably Canon to release a new larger sensor system camera, a la the S2, to showcase their knowhow and technology?

I don't think there is a big enough market for an over-sized Nikon or Canon. Both could most certainly do it, but that'd mean all new lenses etc., Huge R&D investment for a smallish market would seem imprudent. On the other hand, smaller market share, high ticket items is what Leica does.

We have to remember that Leica basically had to start from scratch. The R system was all manual focus lenses, so not only did it need all new AF lenses, the body also had to conform to AF. Leica said there was no way they could compete with Nikon or Canon with a 35mm DSLR, so they went their own way. Given today's sensor technology and pixel pitch, I could easily see a 60 meg S3 without changing the current sensor size or size of the camera ... and the lenses are more than up to it. It'd be over-kill IMHO, but would make a nice studio and location camera for some applications I suppose.

-Marc

 

[gogopix]

I don't think there is a big enough market for an over-sized Nikon or Canon. .....
We have to remember that Leica basically had to start from scratch. The R system was all manual focus lenses, so not only did it need all new AF lenses, the body also had to conform to AF. Leica said there was no way they could compete with Nikon or Canon with a 35mm DSLR, so they went their own way. Given today's sensor technology and pixel pitch, I could easily see a 60 meg S3 without changing the current sensor size or size of the camera ... and the lenses are more than up to it. It'd be over-kill IMHO, but would make a nice studio and location camera for some applications I suppose.

-Marc

I guess I have to agree with Marc (see my bolded area) ...and it is one reason I revived this thread...although limited to three cameras, it raises overall issues of where MF is going...

I have been so busy I missed the last 12 mos of thinking here, and now look back on the P25, P45, P65 IQ180 asw ell as several trips with the S2 and M9. I am wondering whether the 40-50MP range really IS the 'sweet spot" MAYBE up to 60. I think Guy made a persussive argument for the IQ160, and I feel IQ, useable IQ leveled off at the p45+. (Son recently said he thought that was the Phase One "peak")

Now, for various reasons I am reworking my whole setup (also had a whole room of almost new, unused equipment to sell) and wanted a clean start. I consideredP1/IQ160, Alpa with P45+ and an M9 or just the S2...

Although this thread tested more head to head in the 40MP range, it does open up the thinking on where we should focus...maybe better ISO? better lenses?

So many people here mention the Leica S2 "je ne sais quoi" that I don't think it is all imagination. So, all measurements aside, when you SEE that a camera captures the quality you want, does it matter if you pick up a few more cracks in the cement floor in the shadows???

One last observation; this is the only real MF thread I found on MF backs (and no dedicated Phase One IQ1x0 thread!!!) for a couple of weeks, and nothing on the backs (and even the S2 images are relegated to a forum that is for "Leica M,X,R" no mention even of the S2. Yet is gets mentioned in BOTH sub fora.)

Oh well, just some random observations relative to MF...the bottom line is this; MF threads are talking about ancillary issues, DSLRs (D800 etc) and 'quasi-MF" (the S2) so that I wonder whether there really is now, a leveling off of technology, where we can get back to mostly talking about photography and less about equipment...



NOT!!!!!!:ROTFL:

Regards
Victor

 

[PeterA]

Yes I have been busy too - looking for a farm and making photographs. There is only so much time for forums. But GETDPI has a wonderful range of users and opinions to click into to 'catch-up'.

Leica have just broadened the range of useable optics for S2 via their new H adaptor- amazing collaboration between companies...congratulations and salutations.,..

The D800 is a no brainer value buy - especially for anyone with Nikon lenses..most exciting thing for me is the use of live view with the Nikon PC lenses.

Thanks to the OP for posting.

 

[kipling]

Off topic: that's a beautiful painting.

Interesting reading, seems like a fair appraisal. Being a Leica fan since I owned the R8s and Leica glass, I chose the path of the S2. I've used the D3x with both Nikon and Zeiss glass, but to my taste (and it may be biased) the S2 with Leica glass is a stellar performer.

S2, 35MM Summarit, 1/90 @ 4.8, handheld