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From H3D to P1 645.. what U think?

A

amaimani

Guest
Hello everyone..

I have been thinking recently to change my MF system from Hassy H3D 31MP to a Phase One 645, iQ180, through a trade off.

Can you please share with me your thinking.. Has anyone here changed from H3D 31MP to Phase 645? what are pros and cons. Strength of Hassy H3D 31Mp camera over 645 FD and vice versa?

By style of Photography is basically Landscape and Portraits.

Thanks in advance.

Abdul
 

KeithL

Well-known member
The IQ180 bit sounds just fine, but nothing on god's earth could persuade me to jump from Hasselblad's H3D to Phase One's DF camera.
 
A

amaimani

Guest
The IQ180 bit sounds just fine, but nothing on god's earth could persuade me to jump from Hasselblad's H3D to Phase One's DF camera.
Hello Keith,

Can you please give me more insights why you won't jump from H3D to DF?
I will appreciate more comments from you please?
 

kipling

New member
Backs aside (because there's no comparison, the IQ's are way better), with the Hassy you can use a WLF or normal finder (very good). The DF just has a fixed finder. + for Hassy.

If we're talking AF, they're about equal, but the H4 is better than the DF. + for Hassy

The lenses: Primes are about equal, but the Hassy has a faster 100 (f2,2) and way, way, way better zooms. + for Hassy

The DF has a central shutter and leaf shutter lenses. + for DF
But, I use LS lenses, and the central shutter on my DF just blew after one year (just out of warranty!). That ruined a shoot and cost me a bundle. -1 for DF

Mirror up is way better on the Hassy. + for Hassy

Body configuration: with the Hassy you can read the menus! With the DF you have to have a printed list to be able to change a setting in the camera! + for Hassy

The Hassy is better when hand holding and you can delay the mirror. The DF shutter has a major thunk to it. hard for hand held shots at lower speeds. + for Hassy

That's just my opinion though.
 

KeithL

Well-known member
Forgive me, but I won’t bother going into detailed technical reasoning. Suffice to say there is a far more fundamental reason for my preference. My camera is my window to the world and the means to create my images. Every time I pick up a DF all I want to do is put it down again, every time I pick up an H Series all I want to do is use it. If you haven’t already done so you’ll need to do the same, handle and use both before making any decision.

Anything else is living vicariously.
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
Backs aside (because there's no comparison, the IQ's are way better), with the Hassy you can use a WLF or normal finder (very good). The DF just has a fixed finder. + for Hassy.

If we're talking AF, they're about equal, but the H4 is better than the DF. + for Hassy

The lenses: Primes are about equal, but the Hassy has a faster 100 (f2,2) and way, way, way better zooms. + for Hassy

The DF has a central shutter and leaf shutter lenses. + for DF
But, I use LS lenses, and the central shutter on my DF just blew after one year (just out of warranty!). That ruined a shoot and cost me a bundle. -1 for DF

Mirror up is way better on the Hassy. + for Hassy

Body configuration: with the Hassy you can read the menus! With the DF you have to have a printed list to be able to change a setting in the camera! + for Hassy

The Hassy is better when hand holding and you can delay the mirror. The DF shutter has a major thunk to it. hard for hand held shots at lower speeds. + for Hassy

That's just my opinion though.

Just a corrective note - On all Phase One digital backs since 2009 (P40+/65+/IQ140/160/180) the DF camera custom function menus are accessible from the digital back LCD in complete sentence structure, no crib notes necessary.


Steve Hendrix
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Is there ANY camera with AF and a waist level finder that accepts Phase backs? For tech cam work, the Phase has obvious advantages, but it would be nice to be able to do something else with the insanely expensive hunk of metal and silicon. Maybe Contax? Pity about the Hy6 :mad:

--Matt
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
Is there ANY camera with AF and a waist level finder that accepts Phase backs? For tech cam work, the Phase has obvious advantages, but it would be nice to be able to do something else with the insanely expensive hunk of metal and silicon. Maybe Contax? Pity about the Hy6 :mad:

--Matt

W/AF & WLF
Contax 645 AF
Hasselblad H1/H2/H4X

W/O AF & WLF
Hasselblad 500 Series (500, 501, 503, 553, 555, etc)
Fuji GX680
Mamiya RB/RZ/RZ Pro-IID


Steve Hendrix
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Ah! So the Contax has a WLF! (I guess I could have googled that.. thank you.) I handled one briefly and it seemed a nicely solid machine. Is the H4X still "upgrade only"? I'm just hoping that by the time I get around to an actual purchase, the mythical New Phase Body will be a reality. And that it will have a good viewfinder (not optimistic about that).

The only eye level viewfinder I've ever seen that is good with glasses is the Leica S2. Contax, Hassy, Phase, Nikon (except the high eye point), Canon, and Sony all believe that your eye has to be mashed up against the viewfinder.

Anyway, thanks Steve, for the list.

Matt
 

Chris Giles

New member
Forgive me, but I won’t bother going into detailed technical reasoning. Suffice to say there is a far more fundamental reason for my preference. My camera is my window to the world and the means to create my images. Every time I pick up a DF all I want to do is put it down again, every time I pick up an H Series all I want to do is use it. If you haven’t already done so you’ll need to do the same, handle and use both before making any decision.

Anything else is living vicariously.
Exactly my experience.

I've been torn between the Hassy and the 645 Mamiya / Phase systems and I wasn't sure on either until I got digital backs for both.

The AFD's autofocus is 'OK' but it embarrasses you from time to time and it's not pretty as the centre point is way too big. There's the DF, a 4000 GBP camera which has awesome autofocus but it doesn't take film backs....and I like film.

So, The Hassy H1 (1000 GBP) I use has autofocus as good or better than the DF. This is the H1, a 10 year old camera. This aside though you can pretty much dismantle the blad, which I like a lot.
Film backs work, pretty much any digital back fits and whilst there's the argument of the fastest shutter speed being only 1/800 (vs 1/4000 on the 645DF) it bears thinking that it's only 2 and a bit stops of aperture and all the blad lenses are leaf shutter as standard.

There's a lot of arguments for both, based on who you are, style of shooting etc but for me the Hassy has soul and I feel at one with the Hassy where I didn't with the DF.
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
Ah! So the Contax has a WLF! (I guess I could have googled that.. thank you.) I handled one briefly and it seemed a nicely solid machine. Is the H4X still "upgrade only"? I'm just hoping that by the time I get around to an actual purchase, the mythical New Phase Body will be a reality. And that it will have a good viewfinder (not optimistic about that).

The only eye level viewfinder I've ever seen that is good with glasses is the Leica S2. Contax, Hassy, Phase, Nikon (except the high eye point), Canon, and Sony all believe that your eye has to be mashed up against the viewfinder.

Anyway, thanks Steve, for the list.

Matt

Oh darn, I knew I'd forget someone....

W/O AF & WLF
Bronica ETR
Bronica SQ

I'm sure there's more....

Hey - don't underestimate the Bronica! They were Anniversary Edition before Anniversary Edition was cool.:D



Steve Hendrix
 

gazwas

Active member
I'm going to stick my neck on the line here and swim against the majority by saying I like the DF!

IMO internet forum humdrum is the main cause of hate directed towards the DF and most just jump on the band wagon. The AF in the DF is very good and I always get good results from it when used carefully.

A camera body for the vast majority of stuff I shoot is a tool and a means to attach a digital back to the best quality and selection of lenses available. The DF wins hands down. Feelings don't come into it IMO, flexibility does.

I like the Blad system but felt the Phase camera offered more.
 

kipling

New member
Just a corrective note - On all Phase One digital backs since 2009 (P40+/65+/IQ140/160/180) the DF camera custom function menus are accessible from the digital back LCD in complete sentence structure, no crib notes necessary.


Steve Hendrix
Well, it's about time I found that out.
Thanx Steve:clap:
 

kipling

New member
I'm going to stick my neck on the line here and swim against the majority by saying I like the DF!

IMO internet forum humdrum is the main cause of hate directed towards the DF and most just jump on the band wagon. The AF in the DF is very good and I always get good results from it when used carefully.

A camera body for the vast majority of stuff I shoot is a tool and a means to attach a digital back to the best quality and selection of lenses available. The DF wins hands down. Feelings don't come into it IMO, flexibility does.

I like the Blad system but felt the Phase camera offered more.
Hate? No reason to hate either imo. Both are okay.
It's the little thing like a WLF, really good zooms, better AF and a faster 100mm lens that I prefer on the Hassy, but there are nice things about the DF as well. I like all the SK primes and I love the AF/MF lens ring.
I just question some things like the plastic lens shades and the eye piece that I have to gaffer tape to the camera...but nothings perfect.
 

6x7

New member
Oh darn, I knew I'd forget someone....


thank you steve for this picture.. I allways had a really strong feeling about the hasselblad "H-Body-Design" not being the result of a creative process. now we know it was a true evolutionary step/thing. :):)

peter
 

stngoldberg

Well-known member
I have never used the Phase one system, but have extensive experience with the H4D50 Hasselblad both as a system and with the Arca Swiss RM3DI. The body of the Hasselblad delivers outstanding performance in so far as durability and reliability. The ability to focus has been flawless and True Focus allows composition unmatched by any other camera system. The lenses deliver excellent sharp images and the 300mm is outstanding for landscape (think palouse and tuscany).
The system works flawlessly with the Arca Swiss and I assume other technical cameras.
Stanley
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I'm in the Hassey camp, and have nothing good or bad to say about the Phase One offering. Just try them and see what seems to fit. I do not like the Mamiya body no matter what they do to it, but that's just a personal fit issue and not some universal fact.

If you are shooting on a tech camera, the advantages of the IQ 160 and 180 are obvious. A Hasselblad back will work, but has to be powered separately. The exception was supposed to be the H4D/60 back that takes a clip-on battery and has the mechanism to do so ... but Hasselblad has YET to deliver the battery, so as far as I'm concerned it is vaporware until delivered.

On the H4D body, there is very little that can't be done, they doubled the resolution from your H3DII, added a one touch focus check, added a digital spirit level and the True Focus works as advertised for off center compositions ... the zoom lenses are incredible especially the 35-90 across the whole zoom range. The 100/2.2 is unique in signature, the newer 50-II and 150N are is as good as it gets ... blah blah, blah ... the HTS/1.5 is great for movements, and a waist level finder is an essential IMO.

If you want spontaneous AF I'd avoid the Contax 645 ... that was a main reason I moved from Contax to the H system.

-Marc
 

FredBGG

Not Available
Phase One would offer you:
Faster focal plane shutter.
Slightly faster leak shutter in some lenses (one stop)
Possibility of using Hasselblad V lenses that don't have shutters like the magnificent 110mm f2.
Has an optional V-Grip

Focusing on the DF is not as accurate as the Hasselblad if you need to focus and recompose.
 

6x7

New member
just a few thoughts…

if you are allready familiar with the Hasselblad why don't you just upgrade to a H4x, put a Phase back on it and stay with your lenses. personally I didn't like the H in the past (mosly for it's form factor/ergonomics). but this has changed a bit. the quality is great, the system works and the lenses are also superb. adding the HTS will give you many creative possibilities.

in fact from a technical standpoint nearly all backs and cameras produce nice files when used properly, but on the software side there is no substitute for CaptureOne in my opinion. (workflow/ease of use/speed). although I must say that phocus software delivers absolutely killer files and colour with it's native backs.

if you can live with only one lens range option (and this is NO restriction !!! ) and cope with it's max shutter speed than stay with the hassy.

end of the day I would say the hassy has the more versatile/sophisticated body (finder options, True Focus HTS and so on…) and Phase has te most versatile back/software/lens solution… body wise the phase it is a more basic solutuion and now with that "magic battery" the major flaw seems to be gone.

just a few thoughts…

peter
 

EH21

Member
Just curious why you don't consider upgrading to the H4-60?

Matt, what do you mean pity about the Hy6 - the company DHW is still operating and making cameras and you can buy both Sinar and Leaf backs for it.

Add IMHO - the H4 body is probably the best MF camera out there - only bested by the Hy6. The DF is not anywhere in the same league as those two. Why Phase keeps pushing this is beyond reason - the marriage of the beauty (IQ backs) and the beast.
 
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