Seriously strange HR32 problem.

[etrump]

That what I had suggested to Ed at 545am this morning when I read his email.

I think it would be productive to check both sides of the speed at 1 sec and also at 1/125 and in the middle to rule out shutter sync with back issues. Usually that creates some bad calibration data and/blurred or smeared pixels.

I would also take off the one shot and rule that it can be causing some type of timing issues.

In the past KG has problems with the Truewide at certain shutter speeds because of the timing of the chip being activated. it was due to the copal shutter and avoiding a certain shutter speed in bright daylight had to be used to over come this.

Testing it in ATL with all the experience in that room at the Cambo Open House this Friday in Atlanta will certainly solve the issue and Guy will be there to report back the findings.


Good luck.



Sincerely,
Chris Snipes
Sales Manager Florida
Capture Integration

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Shutter speed doesn't seem to effect it. I have exposures from 1/500 to 4 seconds with pretty much the same effect. You would think if it was shutter on long exposures the impact would be much less as pronounced.

Tested with and without the CF as well. same issue.

 

[etrump]

Full res jpg of the same scene one with the camera upright and the other camera tilted 90 degrees CCW with the back vertical to show the same scene using horizontal and vertical axis of the lens.

Aperture f/8, infinity focused at infinity, no tilts or shifts which should be the sweet spot for this lens.

Camera Upright Back Horizontal
Camera 90 CCW Back Vertical

 

[etrump]

Best way to view the problem is to look at the Hyundai sign on the left and the real estate sign on the right side of the frame.

 

[Jack]

Wouldn't motion blur affect the center of the frame as well? The center is tack sharp and immediately starts to degrade as you approach the edge of the frame (especially noticeable at f/4).

Not if the motion is rocking along one of the centerline axi...

 

[etrump]

Not if the motion is rocking along one of the centerline axi...

That very well could be. It does not to have more play than any of the other glass but it is heavier. Hopefully it will be minor. If it was motion any input on why stopping down improves it?

 

[Jack]

That very well could be. It does not to have more play than any of the other glass but it is heavier. Hopefully it will be minor. If it was motion any input on why stopping down improves it?

The additional DoF still mitigates the magnitude of the effect -- note it is still unusably blurred, just blurred "less.".

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Talked about it tonight over dinner with Rene , maybe element movement. But will check tomorrow.

 

[MarkoRepse]

This does look very much like an element moved/is stuck. If you set the floating element completely wrong on the RZ67 lenses (which have one) you get a similar effect; sharp center, bad edges. Maybe you could try some shots focused closer and see what happens?

 

[Digitalcameraman]

That what I love about GetDpi, everyone is always willing to help, just about 24/7.

Guy has already flown to Atlanta, had dinner with Dave and Rene, and discussed the issue at hand and maybe the approach on how to solve it tomorrow.

PS. Hope there was something good on the table. grand cru.

:grin:

Sincerely,
Chris Snipes
Sales Manager Florida
Capture Integration

Capture Integration Brands

Phase One Partner of the Year

404-522-7662 Atlanta
305-350-9900 Miami
877-217-9870 National
813-335-2473 Cell

Newsletter | RSS Feed
Buy Capture One: 10% off

Talked about it tonight over dinner with Rene , maybe element movement. But will check tomorrow.

 

[gazwas]

Due to the silly design of the HR32 being mounted in a tiny Copal 0 shutter for such a large and heavy lens, possibly if the lens has had a slight knock on the front element you might have buckled the shutter. This might explain the sharp centre and smudgy/motion blurred edges.

 

[Shashin]

Was there a solution to this?

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Yes the lens looks to have shutter damage being pulled out slightly and most likely due to the front element pulling on it in a downward motion. We tested it pretty well tethered along with another 32. We actually had 3 32 on hand. When you look at the lens looks slightly slanted down. Bottom line the very wides of all the Roadies including the 23, 28 which I just switched too and the 32 especially you have to be careful how you pack it. My suggestion is do not keep on tech cam in bag but put it mount down on its own to try and protect it. Now in Cambo mount without TS these lenses have bully bars on them which will help protect them. Actually almost all non TS Cambo mounts have bully bars around the lens. I hate them but hey it's up to you if you keep them on.

Bottom line this could probably happen to anyone even when being careful it's a big front element on the 32. Even using a lens wrap in bag might not be a bad idea. Unfortunetly here for Ed this happened but my guess a new shutter and it should be fine.

 

[etrump]

We shall see, it is off to Cambo for repair and installation of t/s

 

[darr]

Bottom line the very wides of all the Roadies including the 23, 28 which I just switched too and the 32 especially you have to be careful how you pack it.

Wow! Unless Ed was totally reckless, this sounds like poor design. As I read through the posts about the Rodenstock wides (retro designs), it keeps me from purchasing one.

Really a whole lot of money for a whole lot of headaches.

Ed, please keep us updated about how it all turns out.

 

[Shashin]

Wow, I am a little surprised by this--Ed does not strike me as a guy who would use a lens to pop open a beer bottle and Rodenstock does not strike me as a company that wouldn't know how to design a lens. Perhaps just bad luck.

And I am interested in the end of the story too.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

We have to remember all these tech lenses are fitted into shutters like a Copal 0 so its not like a 35mm or MF lens that goes straight to a camera mount. Its lens, shutter than body so there is always a break point in there. This could happen to any tech lens, the Roadie wide just happen to have big front elements the 32 being the biggest so that lens to shutter can be a weak area compared to standard lenses of 35 or MF. All view camera lenses of 4x5 are the same types of designs with a shutter in the middle. If i would put any weak point in here its really the shutter not the lens itself. The 32 just makes it a bigger darn handle if you know what I mean.

 

[darr]

Understood Guy, but I have been using view camera lenses since the 1980s. The biggest of the wides I have had to handle and transport is a Rodenstock Grandagon-N 90mm f/4.5 for my 4x5" (82 mm filter thread). As I have considerable experience with Copal 0, 1 and 3 shuttered lenses, I have never heard of this. I would be interested in hearing how this lens was stowed and transported if it indeed became misaligned from the shutter in transport.

Darr

 

[Guy Mancuso]

For all we know to Darr the shutter could certainly had a flaw in it to begin with as well, so hard to tell. Also honestly not sure we actually ever truly thought about this either we just go about our business and maybe never realized that weak point in the design of these lenses. The 32 does have a big front element. Now we all know this and maybe one reason I brought up the warning is its something to think about as we work, store and pack these optics. Seriously these are expensive lenses my 28mm being over 7k its a little scary so big reason I came out with my statement too is to give folks a heads up to take care of these optics. Heck i know i throw my Nikon lenses around and my MF lenses over the years. Just going to be more careful here. LOL

 

[darr]

I hear you Guy! I double pack my lenses and treat them with TLC!!
We may never really know what happened, but being able to share this info is priceless!

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Agree totally just good info to know.