some more H3DII vs phase645 questions

[Paratom]

Can anybody who has used both maybe comment on:
- the mirror-slap (I once had a 645 AF and found the mirror-slap real bad)
- shutter delay
- AF-speed
- Viewfinder (size/brightness)

From reading several threads I get the impression that the Hassy might be the faster andmore responsive system?
I understand the difference of the shutter-systems.

I am back in my MF-evaluation.
Still also torn between P30+/H3DII31 and P25+/H3DII39, but I now tend towards the 31MP-solutions because I think I would want the faster speed and better high-ISO.
Want to shoot people in their surrounding and also sometimes indoors, including kids. Also landscapes.
The bad thing is that I have now 2 offers for H3DII39 which are even a bit lower in price than a new H3dII31-kit.
I think I could live without T/S-posibility (I thinkkk...)

I kind of thought to wait for Leica-system, but it will be min. 6-8 months until they are available, and then I would not want to play beta-tester - so another few month until I would be ready to buy. Therefore I think I dont want to wait that long.

Cheers, Tom

 

[Guy Mancuso]

There is a firmware update coming for the new Phase One body very soon but it does address several issues but I can't really talk about them at the moment. Just something to keep in mind but it certainly will improve the performance.

 

[harmsr]

Tom,

I have both and like both, so hopefully this is unbiased.

mirror slap is better on the AFDIII body vs. my H3DII - although you can program a delay on the Hassy to help

shutter lag is better on the Hassy

AF speeds are similiar - with the edge in both speed and accuracy in difficult situations going to the Hassy

VF - the Hassy wins this easily

IMHO the Hassy has the better camera body - The phase back is faster than the Hassy and has one more stop of ISO. - Capture One software is faster than Phocus. - Phocus is better at shooting tethered. - Image quality at the end of the day is basically identical.

Phase is the way to go if you want a fast focal plane shutter. They plan to also have a leaf shutter solution in the future, but you will have to send your body back to be upgraded.

Hassy is the way to go if you want a leaf shutter system to do high speed flash sync.

I currently have both, because I need a focal plane & a leaf shutter body.

Best,

Ray

 

[Paul Claesson Hasselblad]

"mirror slap is better on the AFDIII body vs. my H3DII - although you can program a delay on the Hassy to help"

There is a custom option #30 on the H3DII camera to set one of the following: None, 25ms, 50ms, 100ms and 200ms delay.

Once you depress the shutter button the capture is initiated, the mirror goes up for the specified millisecond delay (this allows any vibration to settle) and capture is completed.

Regrading firmware updating: Hasselblad has included firmware updating for the digital magazine and Hx/HxD camera from Flexcolor since 2005 and this facility will also be included in the upcoming Phocus 1.1 release.

Paul Claesson
Hasselblad USA

 

[harmsr]

Hi Paul,

Welcome to the forum. I do have my body programmed to the 50 delay to help that out. The Hassy body does give you this option, while the Phase/Mamiya does not.

Best,

Ray

 

[Paratom]

Thank you Ray and Paul!
Its a difficult decision and now a third system (Hy6) comes also into play for me...
I know the best thing would be to test them myself, but this would take a lot of time and effort for me-noteasy if one is not a pro with all the contacts etc.
Something which would make my decision for the Hassy easier if there was a "classical" weist level finder available. (I know - no option at all for the Mamyia).
So if I had to design a new system I would suggest a MF-body, with focal plane shutter, exchangeable viewfinder, and leaf-shutter lenses.

 

[yaya]

Thank you Ray and Paul!
Its a difficult decision and now a third system (Hy6) comes also into play for me...
I know the best thing would be to test them myself, but this would take a lot of time and effort for me-noteasy if one is not a pro with all the contacts etc.
Something which would make my decision for the Hassy easier if there was a "classical" weist level finder available. (I know - no option at all for the Mamyia).
So if I had to design a new system I would suggest a MF-body, with focal plane shutter, exchangeable viewfinder, and leaf-shutter lenses.

Hello Tom,

I think it is all a matter of priorities and deciding (by looking at the specs for now) which system ticks more boxes on your list.

I think that if waist level finder, fast capture rate and responsiveness are high on your list, then you should consider the AFi-II 6 or 7. The 7 is more expensive however it adds a tilting screen (works beautifully with the waist level finder) and a rotating sensor.

The AFi-II 6, I believe, at 1 fps, is the fastest high-res MF system currently in production.

Firmware updates for both back and body are done automatically via Leaf Capture on both Mac and PC.

Good luck

Yair

 

[harmsr]

Tom,

I can't comment on the Leaf or Sinar options as I really haven't used them much to date.

The Hassy does have a waist level finder available for about $300. Only issue is that it doesn't have an exposure meter like the 90 degree finder does.

Best,

Ray

 

[woodyspedden]

Ray

To the best of my knowledge no Hassy WLF has ever had metering except perhaps on the 200 series. So I don't think the H3D is different from the legacy 500's. If I am wrong about this please correct me.

Do any of the systems that don't have a focal plane shutter have this feature?

Which focal plane systems have a WLF?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Woody

 

[andershald]

There is a Waist Level Finder for the Contax 645.

Anders

 

[yaya]

Ray

To the best of my knowledge no Hassy WLF has ever had metering except perhaps on the 200 series. So I don't think the H3D is different from the legacy 500's. If I am wrong about this please correct me.

Do any of the systems that don't have a focal plane shutter have this feature?

Which focal plane systems have a WLF?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Woody

The AFi offers 3 different finders and as the metering (and its display) is in the body you are not losing anything. Moreover, the WLF is actually useable when shooting verticals...

Yair

 

[Paratom]

What you are losing compared H3IID to older Hasselblads is the "foldable" waist level finder.
Yes, as far as I know the Hy6 is the only camera which would offer metering when using the WLF.
I find the "form and function factor" of the Hy6 very tempting.

 

[dougpeterson]

Tom,

Phase is the way to go if you want a fast focal plane shutter. They plan to also have a leaf shutter solution in the future, but you will have to send your body back to be upgraded.

Best,

Ray

It sucks that you have to send it in for firmware updates (if you wan the improvements of whatever new firmware comes out, e.g. the leaf shutter lenses). But it is a next-day turn around time so your downtime is minimal, and its a free service.

The mirror slap delay on the hassy body is a great feature.

Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer
Personal Portfolio

 

[woodyspedden]

There is a Waist Level Finder for the Contax 645.

Anders

Darn shame that Contax is gone from the scene. It would appear they had the feature set that most folks wanted (and still apparently want)

Woody

 

[woodyspedden]

What you are losing compared H3IID to older Hasselblads is the "foldable" waist level finder.
Yes, as far as I know the Hy6 is the only camera which would offer metering when using the WLF.
I find the "form and function factor" of the Hy6 very tempting.

Isn't the HY6 a focal plane shutter body?

Woody

 

[PeterA]

I use both and prefer the H body. The mirror delay feature is very useful in Hasselblad. The H viewfinder is excellent - far better than Mamiya 645/ Contax 645. the Hy6 WL viewfiner is excellent. Miriror slap must be a term that was coined by 35mm SLR shooters when first confronted by the sounds that a Mamiya RZ makes. The RZ has the best WL viewfinder and the loudest big bang mirror slap sound one could ask for - I love it. If you are concerned abotu vibrations impacting on your shot - use an Alpa. Contax make the quietest shutter - it is very nice.

.

 

[jmvdigital]

Isn't the HY6 a focal plane shutter body?

Woody

I don't believe it is. Either way, it's maximum is 1/1000s, where as the 645 is 1/4000s, and Hassy at 1/800s.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Hy6 is a leaf shutter only Contax and Mamiya are focal plane

 

[plasticimage]

"mirror slap is better on the AFDIII body vs. my H3DII - although you can program a delay on the Hassy to help"

There is a custom option #30 on the H3DII camera to set one of the following: None, 25ms, 50ms, 100ms and 200ms delay.

Once you depress the shutter button the capture is initiated, the mirror goes up for the specified millisecond delay (this allows any vibration to settle) and capture is completed.

---

That's very interesting. I had always assumed that the 'extra mirror delay' also delayed the shutter from firing, but I guess this is not the case, and would not induce any shutter lag.

I had never heard a detailed description of this function until now, and shows the power of having direct communication with the brand. Thank you.

 

[thsinar]

To be precise:

- the Sinar Hy6 max shutter speed is 1/1000th
- this is ALSO the flash sync speed

- the 1/4000th is the max shutter speed, not flash sync.

Best regards,
Thierry

I don't believe it is. Either way, it's maximum is 1/1000s, where as the 645 is 1/4000s, and Hassy at 1/800s.