Don Libby
Well-known member
Marc - totally agree.... luck favors the prepared.
-Marc
There's such a thing as the 6-P Principal
Proper
Planning
Prevents
Pi**
Poor
Performance
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Marc - totally agree.... luck favors the prepared.
-Marc
Nothing lowly about a wedding shoot.... that's very critical work and very important to the couple and their family.Even a lowly wedding shoot waits for no man or malfunctioning machine, and there are no re-shoots or do-overs.
-Marc
Let me get something straight. This is not about me complaining about not getting red carpet service. And just to set some facts straight body did have a warranty.Correct me if I am wrong here but there is no dealer purchase in this scenario . Fred as a Pro did not buy from a dealer nor with any warranty. Sorry how often do we drill that in conversations here with MF and that's a bad risk as a Pro. Your swimming in a big ocean without a life boat right out of the gate. You bought no support do you really expect it. Did you actually reach out to a dealer for help. They may not have made the sale but these are good folks that like to help. What's the story first on the purchase?
The ONLY camera gear I ever had extreme problems getting repaired was Nikon. Four months because the part was back-ordered.All equipment can fail occasionally, even the "best" and most expensive one. What is troublesome with MF DB is the cost which is so high that hardly any "normal" photographer can afford to have a backup on a regular basis. If an MF film back or insert fails, any professional photographer has one or more backups, an 80mm can be replaced by a 110mm in a pinch and even an MF body isn't terribly expensive. So when they fail, they don't make the big headlines.
The price of the digital backs have also made them more rare than almost any other photographic equipment. With traditional gear, one can almost always find a replacement by calling some friends or a dealer as long as it's some reasonably mainstream gear, which MF film was. A 20 or 50,000 dollar digital back... just forget about it.
So one would believe then that since they are so bloody expensive, they would also be extremely well made and that there was a service organisation behind that would be able to replace any part within hours, should something, against all odds, fail. But no, the quality of service seems to be going down, not up, and if reliability was the only criteria, I would rather travel around the world with a single Nikon F3 than shoot in the big city where I live with any MF DB. I'm sure it would be more reliable, easier to get fixed and that parts would be more readily available. Most places in the world, even finding a new MF DB to buy can be hard enough. Spare parts? :ROTFL: :loco: :ROTFL:
One can always discuss how relevant it is to use the internet as an indicator of how troublesome a piece of gear is, but having followed these discussions for a number of years, what surprises me isn't how often digital MF cameras break down, and it might not be as often as threads like this give the impression of, but how difficult it sometimes is to find the parts and to get them fixed, even when what seems to be a tiny detail is what causes the problem.
This is also one of the reasons why the D800 is a serious threat to this segment of the camera business: it offers 80-90% of what most digital MF cameras have in store, backed up by a worldwide service organisation that, at least in theory, but mostly also in the real world, have endless piles of spare parts and where many of those parts are shared with amateur cameras that can be bought at any shopping mall.
Which makes me think that MF DB, as good as it is, will never really become as mainstream as MF film was and to a certain degree still is. At least not as long as none of the electronics giants move into that market. With 36MP available in 35mm sensors, I would be very surprised if that happened. Kudos then to those photographers, and their clients, who are quality conscious enough to work with this gear, helping maintain an interesting photographic world.
That sounds like my dealer, WB...best after sales service I've ever hadI've had two problems with my Phase gear. The first was with the infamous lock-up, before it became infamous! My dealer responded to my phone call by contacting Phase and came back to me within one hour (yes, 60 minutes) with the solution. Which worked!
The second was my own fault - dropped the back in a river. Again my dealer responded instantly, arranged for the shipping (from my location a long way from home) to Phase for repair and quarterbacked the process until it was returned to me.
So, yes, my dealer is pretty important to me. Incidentally, I've had no problems with the DF or the IQ other than the now solved lock-up.
Bill
Please ... somebody shoot it ...I don't mean to kill this topic dead but I'm not sure what more can be said?
Which shows that it all depends on where we live in this world. Nikon here was hopeless until they took over the operation themselves about a year ago. Now, it's second to none. The Mamiya distributor actually has some cameras in a glass case at their showroom, but it's locked and it only opens at the sight of a big pile of 1,000 baht notes :loco:The ONLY camera gear I ever had extreme problems getting repaired was Nikon. Four months because the part was back-ordered.
Issues with my S2 were handled over-night ... literally. Called Leica at 3PM, before 10AM over-night loaner delivered. Didn't care if they took a month to repair mine, I was putting miles on their camera, not mine. Leica also called and apologized for the inconvenience.
On the job, of the moment, back-up to medium format quality is a problem due to expense but mostly because nothing equals it. Most folks use a high meg 35mm DSLR as the back-up. I have a S2 and H4D/60, but before that I just used my Sony A900 as back-up to my prior H4D/40. Sounds like a good role for the D800. Nothing is going to replace my H4D/60 for what I shoot for GM, but in a jam I guess a D800 would be better than nothing. (BTW, never had to back up the H4D/40 or the H4D/60, so it is all speculative on my part).
-Marc
Ah, but there's a big difference between CaNiSonys and MF DB: They are cheap and you can buy a couple of them just to be on the safe side. What the MF manufacturers will have to realise to survive is that premium image quality is only part of the equation. Premium build quality and service should be just as obvious. All of the pro or semi-pro DSLRs I have used have had better build quality than all of the MF cameras I have tried the last 10-15 years. That's like buying a Mercedes Benz and accept that after sales service isn't on par with that for the Ford Pinto. If they tried that, they would be dead overnight. That can happen to whatever is left of the MF manufacturers as well, and that would be a pity.Please ... somebody shoot it ...
Sorry I run a camera store and I have Nikons, Sonys, Canons, and olympuses walk in the door all the time that need fixing. And some are lemons .. send them in two or three times and they still have issues.
Please do not miss represent what I wrote. In no way do I question anyone's credentials by using the term "enthusiast". I use it will respect and find that enthusiasts make very significant contributions to photography. Some of the best photography I have seen is from enthusiasts. There are also many professional photographers that are also enthusiasts making photography both a career and hobby.However, we are now on page two and this topic seems to be going nowhere fast. You've had endless problems, others tell you they don't. You question their credentials as an "enthusiast" and the amount they shoot as the Phase system is so flakey it must be impossible for anyone to shoot these camera without a breakdown. And so it continues.
So you think it's classier not to share problems that you have had with other professionals and enthusiast so that they can be more prepared or make more balanced choices.Get enough of this kind of stuff on other forums, have always come here because most posters seem to have enough class to not throw this type of stuff up ...
Well said.Ah, but there's a big difference between CaNiSonys and MF DB: They are cheap and you can buy a couple of them just to be on the safe side. What the MF manufacturers will have to realise to survive is that premium image quality is only part of the equation. Premium build quality and service should be just as obvious. All of the pro or semi-pro DSLRs I have used have had better build quality than all of the MF cameras I have tried the last 10-15 years. That's like buying a Mercedes Benz and accept that after sales service isn't on par with that for the Ford Pinto. If they tried that, they would be dead overnight. That can happen to whatever is left of the MF manufacturers as well, and that would be a pity.
Please, please, please then try and listen to other peoples point of view.Please do not miss represent what I wrote.
No stalemate this is not a competition. The last thing I want is to take your pleasure away from the camera you like to use. I'm glad it is working out for you.Please, please, please then try and listen to other peoples point of view.
No matter what you say, your comments will not detract from the FACT that I enjoy the DF and have had no major issues with it. No matter what I say will rectify the problems you've experienced using the kit and make you appreciate using the DF again.
We're at stalemate! :deadhorse:
As this topic is suddenly turning into a one man soap box, will it help if we (as you obviously want) as a collective forum all agree with you that the DF is a complete pile of tosh so we can get on with discussing something more interesting than a "I hate XXX because" thread?