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Price Reduction Sinar Hy6 - 54 & Sinar Hy6 - 75 Camera Systems & Backs

carstenw

Active member
David K, I certainly don't have a problem with the sales channel *existing*, and I would not expect hand-holding from Sinar, just good documentation, and the occasional question. I mentioned the possibility of a forum, because in my experience, in a good forum, other users answer most of the questions, not tech support. I would expect to ask most of my questions here, in fact, and only the most specific, technical questions on the Sinar forum.
 

carstenw

Active member
Graham, it is really nice of you to offer, but part of the problem here is that I am starting from level zero :) I doubt I would be able to learn anything useful by trying out a device for an hour at this time. This is not to say that I won't come to Tallinn though :)

I am willing and able to learn on my own, but would not expect to do it on someone else's time. I just need to futz around on my own, find my own bottlenecks, and then search for solutions to them. I don't expect that taking the first shot with a back would be that hard, but I am not looking at MF for just another camera system, but rather, to achieve the highest technical quality possible, for certain kinds of shots (essentially, what I can't do well with a Leica M8).

There is just a lot to learn about MF in general. Lens cast shots (?), colour, developing, tethering, and on and on. Just a whole other world. I would be more comfortable going through the baby steps alone, and bothering others only when I am a little more advanced and can ask intelligent questions.
 
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Paratom

Well-known member
Thierry,

I have another question: I want to buy a digital back, but in fact I don't want any of the extras that the dealer network offers. I am not a pro, don't know a lot about digital MF equipment, and cannot at this point ask intelligent questions. But, I am a fanatical photo hobbyist, and I want to learn.

What I really want is to buy the equipment, and read the documentation, maybe buy an an extra book or two, read them, and then start using it, asking questions on forums like this. I cannot stand dealers like Calumet, because they are incredibly snobby, and give you bad service if you are not pro, and don't already know what you are doing. In my experience, most fancy dealers are like that. Capture Integration and a couple of others might be the exception here, but I am in Berlin, not the States. What I really want is to go to your website, find the items I want, drop them in a shopping cart, and check out.

Why don't you do this? You would just need to have a forum where I could ask questions, and some decent documentation, and that would be it!

I would say that for me, this is probably the primary reason why I am not already using digital MF equipment. The whole system is just way too complicated, and I want simplicity and transparency.
Carsten,
I am a hobby-photograper as well and went to the contacts through the website of phasem Hasselblad and Sinar.
I have to say that all the guys I have contacted so far have been quit nice and gave me a lot of info despite they know that I will probably buy just 1 body+back+ maybe 1 or 2 lenses.
After a lot of reading and asking I am now somewhere between Contax and Hy6, and between Sinar 54 and 65 back.
Viele Grüße, Tom
 

David K

Workshop Member
There is just a lot to learn about MF in general. Lens cast shots (?), colour, developing, tethering, and on and on. Just a whole other world. I would be more comfortable going through the baby steps alone, and bothering others only when I am a little more advanced and can ask intelligent questions.
Carsten,
I think you're on the right track but want to encourage you to ask all the questions with no fear of appearing foolish for lack of knowledge. I have done this myself and found that some of the questions I was reluctant to ask weren't as foolish as I thought, and that others had similar or related difficulties. For example, I couldn't figure out how to convert my Sinar files to DNG's, either in Sinar's eXposure or in the Brumbaer tools. I kept looking for an "import" command or some such thing. Turns out all you needed to do was select the files and drag them to the folder of your choice. I'll confess to feeling a bit knuckle-headed but I can assure you that I had several communications from other people who had the same problem. To me, if there's one thing that makes this forum a special place it's that lack of needing to be a "pro" just to ask a question or without feeling inadequate.
 

carstenw

Active member
Hey Tom,

it seems that we have taken different paths to end up in the same place :) How did you rule out the Mamiya, and the Phase One backs? I ended up with the Contax 645 and am considering Sinar and Phase One backs. If you are ever in Berlin, you are more than welcome to come and have a look at the Contax, in case you don't have access to one to make up your mind. It is a lot cheaper than the Hy6, of course, as are the lenses. On the other hand, no official support...

David,

thanks a lot for your welcome, and I do like this MF forum a lot. The LL forum has perhaps more "high-profile" pros, but those guys argue a lot! It is a lot more cozy around here, and I feel much better asking questions. Anyway, although I now more or less have my camera kit done, I still need a back, which will most likely take a few months...
 

Paratom

Well-known member
Hey Tom,

it seems that we have taken different paths to end up in the same place :) How did you rule out the Mamiya, and the Phase One backs? I ended up with the Contax 645 and am considering Sinar and Phase One backs. If you are ever in Berlin, you are more than welcome to come and have a look at the Contax, in case you don't have access to one to make up your mind. It is a lot cheaper than the Hy6, of course, as are the lenses. On the other hand, no official support...
Carsten,
For me it is about the question if I want the MF-system to handle more like my Nikon system or if I want the MF as something different, where I would photograph in a different way. Years ago I have used a M645 with waist level finder and liked the waist level finder. I also like the idea of being able to not have a camera in front of my phase when photographing people.
The Hasselblad could be a compromise, but the waist level finder seems to be made of plastic and not foldable- I am not sure if it would give me what I want. However there are some very good offers for used H3IID-39 cameras which are tempting.
The phase system would be a logic choice for me because I still own 3 manual Mamyia lenses to start with (35,70,150mm) - but also here I dont know if it will give me the MF-feeling I am looking for.
Overall I think I would benefit more from the focal plane shutter (dont do much flash-photography) but I think 1/1000 would be also fine for me - so the shutter would not be the main decision factor.

Another thing are lenses and character. Here I get the feeling that the Schneider and Zeiss lenses might be the better choice for me because I am looking for a smooth and natural look (for example I prefer the look from the Leica 28asph compared to the 24/2.8).
NOw Hy6 vs Contax I see as following:
Contax pro:
price, smaller size
Hy6 pro: 6x6 (should be an advantage for waist level finder shooting), all metering possible with wlv, faster AF, I really like the form factor and look of the camera, but expensive (specially lenses)
Overall it will be more an emotional than a brain decision for me.
I guess I need some more time to stru´ggle with myself and to collect info, and I should force myself to get my hands on some equipment before I buy.
Best, Thomas
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Dealer support is a critical part of the equation. Contrary to previous posts, this stuff is hardly no-brainer for most people. Sometimes it is difficult to sort out what is user error from what is a real issue with the gear.

On-line info is not always reliable ... I've seen a load of internet mis-information even on this forum ... fortunately it's usually corrected by a dealer or company rep. or a highly experienced user that's gone through the same thing. But if it isn't caught in time, the mis-information can sometimes deepen the problem rather than resolve it.

My dealer is available in the same time zone as I'm in and I have his cell phone number for after hours help. I've used this feature to sort out issues in real time so I can get back to shooting as fast as possible.

a good Dealer is also a user avocate when dealing with the company, and often has direct lines of communications with the correct person to solve a problem.

Big Box stores have no up side when buying a digital back. They cost the same or more, and the support is very difficult to get after the sale.
 
A

Aitor

Guest
Great news. I hope they drop the adapter kits to a more reasonable price.
i think they are very very expensive that make in practise the versatility of the Sinar system not as good.
 
T

thsinar

Guest
Dear Carsten,

1. Nomenclature of Sinarbacks

Sinar is using the same way for naming its Sinarbacks since the very first model, the Sinarback 22 (2000 x 2000 pixels):

- SB 22 (4 MPx), SB 23 (6 MPx), SB 43 (11,6 MPx), SB 44 (16 MPx), SB 54 (22 Mpx)

Then there are the Sinarback eMotion series:

- Sinarback eMotion 54 (22 MPx), Sinarback eMotion 75 (33 MPx)

The Sinarback eVolution serie:

- Sinarback eVolution 75 H (33 MPx) with multi shot function

And the new Sinarback eSprit serie:

- Sinarback eSprit 65 (31 MPx)

The Sinarback 54 existed in 3 versions, discontinued now:

- The Sinarback 54 S (single shot)
- The Sinarback 54 H (multi shot)
- The sinarback 54 M (for Mobility) and thereafter the 54 MC (Cooled), also single shot.

- The Sinarback eMotion 54 LV: LV stands for the Live Video function

2. Specifications

Discontinued backs are not longer on our website, yes.

Let me know which back in particular you which to have the specifications and provide me with an email address: I will send it to you.

3. I am not aware of any reviews published, but may others do.

Thierry,

After the price drops, I am seriously considering getting a 54LV rather than the Kodak Pro I was previously considering, but I am not very familiar with the Sinar series of backs. Is there somewhere I can go to read about:

1) The nomenclature.
- I read somewhere that 54 means (roughly) 5000x4000.
- 54 vs. 54M vs. 54MC vs. 54LV vs. 54R vs. 54H
(ignore the fact that some of these don't exist, I just want to understand the naming.)

2) The performance/specs. The current backs are on the site, but not the old ones.

3) Reviews. I would like to compare with Phase One P25 etc.

I hope this answers.

Best regards,
Thierry

I am looking for a back for my Contax 645. Initially I will be using it for dusk-architecture shots, and possibly some product-style studio shots. I will surely test it for portraits as well...
 
T

thsinar

Guest
Dear Carsten,

since you are based in Germany, you can actually buy from our distributor's on-line shop. I am not sure if the prices are really that cheaper, since we are still bound by after-sales servicing and offering the same warranty (3 years). But you can do it and Sinar Germany is selling quite a few complete systems like this.

Here Sinar Germany's site:

http://sinar.de/

and the online shop:

https://shop.strato.de/epages/Store10.sf/?ObjectPath=/Shops/15493234

Then there is also and always the possibility to buy directly from the Sinar factory, in Switzerland: it needs to visit Sinar and pay upon delivery of the goods.

I hope this answers and helps.

Best regards,
Thierry

Thierry,

I have another question: I want to buy a digital back, but in fact I don't want any of the extras that the dealer network offers. I am not a pro, don't know a lot about digital MF equipment, and cannot at this point ask intelligent questions. But, I am a fanatical photo hobbyist, and I want to learn.

What I really want is to buy the equipment, and read the documentation, maybe buy an an extra book or two, read them, and then start using it, asking questions on forums like this. I cannot stand dealers like Calumet, because they are incredibly snobby, and give you bad service if you are not pro, and don't already know what you are doing. In my experience, most fancy dealers are like that. Capture Integration and a couple of others might be the exception here, but I am in Berlin, not the States. What I really want is to go to your website, find the items I want, drop them in a shopping cart, and check out.

Why don't you do this? You would just need to have a forum where I could ask questions, and some decent documentation, and that would be it!

I would say that for me, this is probably the primary reason why I am not already using digital MF equipment. The whole system is just way too complicated, and I want simplicity and transparency.
 
T

thsinar

Guest
!!! I don't understand this a "just"! This is quite an investment.

Anyway, you should expect the same type of service and support WHATEVER you plan to purchase, or even if you do not plan to.

Best regards,
Thierry

Carsten,
... despite they know that I will probably buy just 1 body+back+ maybe 1 or 2 lenses.
Tom
 
T

thsinar

Guest
It's a little bit farther, but you have as well my invitation to come and visit me in Bangkok, Thailand. I have no problems to spend a couple of days to show you the basics. Seriously, if by chance you are in the region any time soon.

Best regards,
Thierry

Graham, it is really nice of you to offer, but part of the problem here is that I am starting from level zero :) I doubt I would be able to learn anything useful by trying out a device for an hour at this time. This is not to say that I won't come to Tallinn though :)
 
T

thsinar

Guest
Dear Aitor,

I wish simply to remind that the adapters are not just a cheap (though precise) piece of metal: there are internal electronics and sometimes even firmware included, to allow all the communication.

Such an adapter plate is not cheap to produce.

Best regards,
Thierry

Great news. I hope they drop the adapter kits to a more reasonable price.
i think they are very very expensive that make in practise the versatility of the Sinar system not as good.
 

carstenw

Active member
I should force myself to get my hands on some equipment before I buy.
Definitely! The feel is so different, and I have totally different reactions to the equipment. I have an old 500C and I love the thing to death, but the new H-series leaves me totally cold, similar to the feel I get from Canon cameras now. The Leica M and the Contax 645 have a similar simplicity and tight focus on the task at hand, although I have to admit that the feel of the Leica is better. The Mamiya was out of the question for me since I can't use a waist-level finder, and the Hy6 due to price.
 

carstenw

Active member
It's a little bit farther, but you have as well my invitation to come and visit me in Bangkok, Thailand. I have no problems to spend a couple of days to show you the basics. Seriously, if by chance you are in the region any time soon.
With a newborn on my hands, it could take a while, but I would definitely like to take you up on that one day!

Thanks for the info on the backs. I understand that the eVolution series is for tethered studio use, and the eMotion for portable use. What is the eSprit then?

The Sinar shop seems not to have the new prices yet. On the other hand, if by buying online I would get exactly the same hardware for the same price, but with less service/support options, then that doesn't seem to attractive. I will look into it when my bank account gets a little fatter.

I am mostly interested in the cheaper backs, for my first attempt, so I would compare a new e54LV to the Kodak Pro (cheaper, less capable), the P21, P22 and P25, and perhaps the e54MC. Do you have a PDF for the e54M/MC?
 

Paratom

Well-known member
!!! I don't understand this a "just"! This is quite an investment.

Anyway, you should expect the same type of service and support WHATEVER you plan to purchase, or even if you do not plan to.

Best regards,
Thierry
Thierry,
I meant "just" compared to a professional phtographer.
I also expect the same service but today one is used that it is not allways the case. (However I have good experience with the people I have contacted so far in Germany.)
 
T

thsinar

Guest
hi Carsten,

- the SB 54 M or MC is sold out, but we have from time to time some refurbished backs. Pls. provide me with your email that I can send you: no attachment possible here.

- I am not sure about the prices on the Sinar DE online shop: you would have to check it out.

- as for the Sinarback eSprit 65 or the Hy6 - 65 camera system, I refer to following earlier threads, they will give you very detailed information about it:

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3089&page=4

and prices here:

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3304&page=2

But basically, this back is the very FIRST digital back with onboard processing, generating directly DNGs, JPGs or RAWs, or a combination of it.
Also, the first high-res 3" LCD display with 640x480 ppi, among others.

Best regards,
Thierry

With a newborn on my hands, it could take a while, but I would definitely like to take you up on that one day!

Thanks for the info on the backs. I understand that the eVolution series is for tethered studio use, and the eMotion for portable use. What is the eSprit then?

The Sinar shop seems not to have the new prices yet. On the other hand, if by buying online I would get exactly the same hardware for the same price, but with less service/support options, then that doesn't seem to attractive. I will look into it when my bank account gets a little fatter.

I am mostly interested in the cheaper backs, for my first attempt, so I would compare a new e54LV to the Kodak Pro (cheaper, less capable), the P21, P22 and P25, and perhaps the e54MC. Do you have a PDF for the e54M/MC?
 
A

Aitor

Guest
Dear Aitor,


Such an adapter plate is not cheap to produce.
I understand this. Anyway, I still consider them too pricy.

Thierry,
Does you know the prices of tne adapter plate for a Contax645 and for a P3 ? Or a updated website where I could check them ?.
Regards
 

carstenw

Active member
I understand this. Anyway, I still consider them too pricy.

Thierry,
Does you know the prices of tne adapter plate for a Contax645 and for a P3 ? Or a updated website where I could check them ?.
Regards
I find it neat that they are made at all. Many other manufacturers have no plates, and you must pay $3000 to change the mount! Sinar's method is great, in comparison. I presume you simply buy an (expensive) plate for the first back, and forever after you keep it and just buy new backs, right?
 
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