Sinar M system

[David Klepacki]

Gilles, I visited your website gallery. The Sinar m is made for fine art repro work like yours. I know it seems a little expensive at first, but if you already own Hasselblad V lenses or a P3 system, you are way ahead already. And, because of its modular design, you can only buy what you need, and add items incrementally as you need them.

In fact, if you really need to save some money, you do not even have to buy the AF mirror module if you shoot exclusively in your studio. Sinar makes a simple "Lens Module", which is basically an extension tube to fit your V lens to the M camera. This lens module is much less expensive (by like 10x) and is meant for studio use where you will be doing your composition and focusing tethered to your computer. This eliminates the expense of a viewfinder as well.

 

[PeterA]

David,

Thanks for your very informative post.

Pete

 

[BJNY]

Sinar makes a simple "Lens Module", which is basically an extension tube to fit your V lens to the M camera. This lens module is much less expensive (by like 10x) and is meant for studio use where you will be doing your composition and focusing tethered to your computer. This eliminates the expense of a viewfinder as well.

David,

Are lens modules available for Mamiya645 120mm macro, and for Nikon F-mount lenses?

Thanks for the great firsthand info,
Billy

 

[David Klepacki]

Billy, Sinar only makes the simple lens module for the Hasselblad lenses at this time. Actualy, it is really more than just a simple tube, since it also has connectivity for the Sinar LC Shutter (an LCD device to aid live focusing in the studio). It is this LC Shutter capability which adds to the complexity of the design; without that, it is a simple extension tube.

So, what I am trying to tell you is that the LC shutter is an option, maybe even a luxury option, and that any good machinist can make you a tube to mount your Nikon-F or Mamiya glass onto the M camera. Of course, you will then need to use lenses that can be manually stopped down.

 

[Gilles L.]

Thank you very much for all the information, David. If it was not such an expensive system, I think it would be ideal for what I do. But as you said I can gradually built it, and I already have the Hasselblad lenses. I will give it much thought.

Thanks again,

Gilles

 

[Forrest Black]

Hi David,

The prism viewfinder looks exactly like a Mamiya Pro TL prism adapted to the Sinar M.

 

[PSon]

To all, the 90 degree prism was the Mamiya prism which got modified for the Sinar m system. Why invent the wheel when it is already made.

Also there is a waist level finder which is very cheap to get and it is around $400 only. Thus, there are many ways to own the Sinar m system and like David mentioned you can slowly build the whole system since each vital components can function without the whole Sinar m system.

Best Regards,
-Son

 

[Yevgeny NP]

I have been using the M-system for more than 2 years now. I started with the eMotion 22 and the full Sinar-M AF system. Later I picked up an almost new Sinar 54H multi shot back on eBay, than I bought a used Manfrotto motorised stand and an LC-Shutter. Now I have a sophisticated 16 -shot copying system, and I am sure that it will be competitive for many years. It did not come cheap, but for me the system is a very long term investment.

I still do not own the P3, If I need movements I use my old Norma with Film. I do all my flat artwork shooting with the Sinar- M. I remember that somebody claimed that the AF lenses cannot be used for 16 shot shooting , that only Rodenstock HR lenses allow the best possible quality. I do not want to argue, but in my experience the 120mm. Makro is more than capable. The 40mm. is so good and so well corrected that I use it very often when I work with bigger objects on a short copying stand.

The workflow for flat artwork shooting is very simple, The camera lives under the roof of the studio on the motorized vertical stand, in autofocus mode I am able to control the shooting parameters from the software with Live View (now LV works better with the LC Shutter). It saves time enormously. The new Sinar/Foba motorized stand (presented at Photokina2008) is even better, it allow the photographer to control the stand and 3D camera movements in CaptureShop.
Yevgeny

 

[thsinar]

hi Gilles,

please PM me your email contact and I shall send you some more info on the Sinar m.

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry

There is hardly any discussion on the Sinar M and I have not found any US$ pricing. Does anyone have any experience with the system and the different lens modules? Reading the specs, it is a really attractive system for anyone wanting versatility. This looks like a nice partner for the 54LV.

Any information greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Gilles

www.gilleslorin.com

 

[thsinar]

Dear David,

Thanks for these precisions.

Hi Graham, i am familiar with this review. I have to disagree with the author's judgement about the autofocus speed. Certainly, it is not comparable to the speed of a 35mm system like the Canon 1DIII. However, as owner of both the Hy6 and the Sinar m, I can verify that the autofocus speed is very fast and NOT one bit slower than the Hy6.

I can confirm the very fast AF of the Sinar m.

What I also like about the Sinar m is that the viewfinder information, including the left-right focus indicators, are exactly the same as in the Hy6. This makes shooting with both cameras really transparent from the viewfinder perspective.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, other technology from the Sinar m has been "taken over", respectively improved and is now in the Hy6: the same Sinar tech team has worked on both projects. That is why I do always "correct", when one says that the Hy6 camera is a Rollei(flex) camera. It is manufactured by the same people as the Rolleiflex 6008, has some inputs from them, but many comes from the Sinar m and is a Jenoptik camera/project.

In fact, as much as I love the Contax 645, the Sinar m autofocus mechanism blows it away. The Sinar m can lock onto focus instantly in dim situations where the Contax 645 is either unable or "hunts" for focus.
[/QUOTE]
I do confirm this as well.

best regards,
Thierry

 

[thsinar]

Billy,

yes it is a Mamiya prism.

Best regards,
Thierry

Thank you again, David.

• The M looks to be using a Mamiya 645 prism, yes?

 

[thsinar]

Thank you David, again completely right.

I should hire you, you seem to know the Sinar m system better than me!

Best regards,
Thierry

In fact, if you really need to save some money, you do not even have to buy the AF mirror module if you shoot exclusively in your studio. Sinar makes a simple "Lens Module", which is basically an extension tube to fit your V lens to the M camera. This lens module is much less expensive (by like 10x) and is meant for studio use where you will be doing your composition and focusing tethered to your computer. This eliminates the expense of a viewfinder as well.

 

[David Klepacki]

Thierry,

The M camera is a wonderful, wonderful system. Rather than buying a new DSLR camera every year or so, you can gradually build this M system to do just about anything.

If you really want to shake up the industry, I would suggest adding a Rollei/Hy6 AF mirror module that would allow use of the Zeiss and Schneider leaf shutters. This would be a dream come true. It would more tightly integrate the Hy6 and Sinar M system, allowing the Hy6 lenses to be moved between the two.

The Sinar M camera would then be a convenient and highly flexible body where one could switch between focal plane shutter and leaf shutter, and would compete effectively with upcoming dual-shutter offerings from Phase/Mamiya and Leica. There is no danger to Hy6 sales, as that camera has completely different advantages in shooting ergonomics (like BRIGHT viewfinder and rotating back, etc.). In fact, I would then view the Hy6 and M (and even P3) as merely different "accessories" within the same modular Sinar system.

Another option is to help people get into the Sinar M system at a lower price point, by building a Contax 645 AF Mirror module, and allowing Contax 645 users to use their existing lenses on the M. This would increase the range of AF lenses for it, including the 35, 45-90 zoom and 350APO lenses, not to mention the 1:1 macro capability of the Contax APO 120. There is a huge base of Contax 645 users out there that would then have a future upgrade path to grow their needs.

Just some thoughts.

 

[BJNY]

I'd like the front portion of the arTec to fit onto the M chasis,
allowing for movements, and allowing for use of arTec lenses
resulting in a high tech version of Alpa SWA and Arca R-line.

 

[David Klepacki]

I'd like the front portion of the arTec to fit onto the M chasis,
allowing for movements, and allowing for use of arTec lenses
resulting in a high tech version of Alpa SWA and Arca R-line.

The rangefinder wide angle lenses do not allow a mirror/viewfinder due to their short registration distances. So, you would have to manually force open the M shutter to do focusing. I agree that this would also be a useful addition to the M, but I would like to then have a ground glass focusing mechanism. It is not always possible to use live view tethered to the computer.

You can begin to see just how versatile this M shutter system can be.

 

[BJNY]

How would an M be used on a p3 rear standard if the shutter can't be forced open for viewing?

 

[David Klepacki]

How would an M be used on a p3 rear standard if the shutter can't be forced open for viewing?

Yes, of course the shutter is forced open, but you can only use the live view mode as activated by the software. I was just adding that I would also like to see this work without being tethered. This would make the system more mobile, when needed.

The Contax 645 has a separate jack for a mechanical cable, where you can manually force open the shutter. That is what I was thinking would be useful for the Sinar m as well.