Mamiya ZD body - anybody here using one?

[Paratom]

Anybody here using a Mamiya ZD?
Maybe I made a mistake but I kind of gambled and won an auction for a Mamiya ZD (the integrated body) + lens for a price which seemed to be quite low and far from all other options to start with digital MF - specially keeping in mind that I still own three older Mamiya 645 lenses (35,70,150).

It is not my "dream-camera" but I hope that it will let me get some idea of MF-shooting and IQ and give me some more time to make my final decision for a more sophisticated (and probably much more expensive) system.

I read some reports about vibrations caused by the mirror of the ZD - I also read that I might to have to be ready for a little worse dynamic range compared to other MF-backs?
And so I am interested to get some feedback if there are any things I should keep in mind when I start to use the ZD.
I hope that I havent done a mistake but at least I have something to use now and not only something to dream.
I hope/think that I should be able to sell this camera without much loss in a couple of months when I would like to move on.

Regards, Thomas

 

[dougpeterson]

Anybody here using a Mamiya ZD?
Maybe I made a mistake but I kind of gambled and won an auction for a Mamiya ZD (the integrated body) + lens for a price which seemed to be quite low and far from all other options to start with digital MF - specially keeping in mind that I still own three older Mamiya 645 lenses (35,70,150).

It is not my "dream-camera" but I hope that it will let me get some idea of MF-shooting and IQ and give me some more time to make my final decision for a more sophisticated (and probably much more expensive) system.

I read some reports about vibrations caused by the mirror of the ZD - I also read that I might to have to be ready for a little worse dynamic range compared to other MF-backs?
And so I am interested to get some feedback if there are any things I should keep in mind when I start to use the ZD.
I hope that I havent done a mistake but at least I have something to use now and not only something to dream.
I hope/think that I should be able to sell this camera without much loss in a couple of months when I would like to move on.

Regards, Thomas

Read back through the archives here. There are many former owners of ZD systems (back or integrated body) here and you will find a lot of information on their experiences.

Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer
Personal Portfolio

 

[elgreco]

A few weeks ago I bought a used Mamiya ZD and have been overwhelmed by what this marvellous camera is able to deliver in terms of picture quality. From my point of view, there is nothing wrong with your decision to buy one, Thomas.

Before the ZD I had been shooting with a Hasselblad 503 CW both analogue and digital with the CFD digital back. Compared with the latter, the ZD is a great step forward.

What I like best about it:
• The compact size
• User interface like a modern DSLR
• Picture quality (ZD and lenses work well together)
• The ZD and C1 4 Pro are a great combination
• Speed is very good for a MF camera
• Image format comparable to my Plaubel Makina 67

What I dislike:
• Very tiny display that's hardly usable.
• ISO 250 is critical, ISO 400 is unusable.
• The included software is a joke
• Aperture cannot read ZD RAW files

In a nutshell, I am pretty sure that you will keep your Mamiya ZD for quite some time as it's form factor and image quality are simply addictive.

 

[jdbfreeheel]

Read back through the archives here. There are many former owners of ZD systems (back or integrated body) here and you will find a lot of information on their experiences.

Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer
Personal Portfolio

I think Doug's comment deserves a slight caveat. (and Doug, the caveat is stated with a ton of respect for your and CIs work).

Certainly the ZD (both integrated and digital back) has some serious limitations, but as an entry into the MF world, it's decent. I own the DB and despite my first DB suffering from some issues (periodic weird white/snowy frames and a date system that could never remember the date), MAC replaced it with a new back and it has been working quite well.

As has been noted previously too, some early ZDs had bad purple blobs that was debated ad infinitum for a while but there are certainly usable units out there, using the same 22mpx chip as the Aptus 22, a solid chip.

For those of us that are using these for hobby and/or very little paying work, who can live with the limitations (small lcd, unusable quality above 200/250 ISO, etc) it is a good system that gets you into a relatively inexpensive lens collection, (and with the db), a very good MF body system (AFD I, II, and now III).

I do agree that eventually (when one's bank accounts grow, gear envy grows, or pixel peeping needs grow), better DBs may be coveted and purchased by ZD owners. However, as price points continue to fluctuate, I will stick with my ZD DB for a while and be happy with a quality that surpasses nearly all (if not all) 35mm digital formats.

Enjoy.

-Josh

 

[Quentin_Bargate]

Its an excellent professional tool. I have owned mine for over 2.5 years. The so called "limitations" reflect user inexperience, or received wisdom, for the most part. Sure the screen is naff, but the dynamic range and sharpness is very good. Its less good at long exposures. Its an easy to use bargain and trumps the smaller formats.

Quentin

 

[Paratom]

Thanks guys! First results look fine.
One has to get used to slow down though (specially been used to a D3 system).
Regards, Tom

 

[John Black]

Tom - a couple quick questions:

1) How useful is the histogram? Is it easy to read and do you think it accurately indicates the exposure?

2) After the image is taken, how long does it take for the first initial preview to appear?

3) Have you tried shooting RAW + JPEG, and if so, have you noticed any slow down before the initial preview appears?

 

[NonFiction]

I'm also interested in this conversation, as I've been watching the entry end of MFD world for a while. Specifically, I'd love to hear more about the OP's comparison of the ZD with the Hasselblad CFV. Would anyone who's used both care to expand upon this theme a little?

 

[Paratom]

Tom - a couple quick questions:

1) How useful is the histogram? Is it easy to read and do you think it accurately indicates the exposure?

2) After the image is taken, how long does it take for the first initial preview to appear?

3) Have you tried shooting RAW + JPEG, and if so, have you noticed any slow down before the initial preview appears?

1) I find the histogramm ok to read (vs. the image itself is not ok to see and judge, tiny and color is off)

2) I would say it is about 1-2 Sec.

3) Yes, there seems an enourmes slow down. not acceptable. I shoot raw only.

Some people might not like this comment but in the end I think the Leica S2 concept is kind of a copy of the ZD-concept.
Of course there are BIG differences in build quality and feel and probably glass as well and design too. but the concept itself...
And the user interface of the ZD works quite well for me. Very quick acces for DOF preview, exp comp, mirror lock etc etc. It wont win a design award though.
The S2 is more minemalistic regarding buttons and therefore more control threw the menue (however pretty easy to understand and quick menue)
Leica please forgive me the comparison.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Nothing to forgive Tom, you are exactly correct. it is the same concept

 

[Quentin_Bargate]

1)
Some people might not like this comment but in the end I think the Leica S2 concept is kind of a copy of the ZD-concept.

I think that is exactly what it is. The ZD is now several years old as a design - took them ages to bring it to market, but when first announced, 22mp was the highest resolution sensor available (back when Phase One's P25 topped the charts). I hope Leica take less time than Mamiya to bring the S2 to market.

I really like the ZD. Its a well executed concept.

Quentin

 

[John Black]

Thanks Thomas. Too bad about the JPEGs because a Epson P5000 (or similar) would be a nice adjunct display for reviewing images in the field.

Another concept that has been on and off the drawing board is the Pentax 645D. It looks very dSLR centric and in its last version it was mated with the same sensor as the Phase One P30+. The Pentax was last shown at PMA 2007 and the project was subsequently (are very quietly) closed when the Hoya merger (or whatever it was) happened. A couple months ago somebody said the 645D was alive again.

I would love to see Mamiya update the ZD camera with a new LCD and some other improvements. One catch-22 is how long the Dalsa 22 MP sensor will stay in production.

Leica needs to address the info presented in the S2's viewfinder - they need to catch up with Canon, Nikon, et al provide some real information about exposure and the amount of EC. Leica design looks clean, but having to go into a menu system to change XYZ is tedious and leads to missed shots - especially when shooting in fast paced settings.

 

[Paratom]

John, I shall also try with small jpgs, which I havent tried yet.
The display - well its not great at all but I can live with it because I have kind of given up judging IQ from what I see on screen even with 3 inch screens images might look sharp on scvreen but not in reality.
Important to read the histogramm and to judge exposure. Thats possible.

Thanks Thomas. Too bad about the JPEGs because a Epson P5000 (or similar) would be a nice adjunct display for reviewing images in the field.

Another concept that has been on and off the drawing board is the Pentax 645D. It looks very dSLR centric and in its last version it was mated with the same sensor as the Phase One P30+. The Pentax was last shown at PMA 2007 and the project was subsequently (are very quietly) closed when the Hoya merger (or whatever it was) happened. A couple months ago somebody said the 645D was alive again.

I would love to see Mamiya update the ZD camera with a new LCD and some other improvements. One catch-22 is how long the Dalsa 22 MP sensor will stay in production.

Leica needs to address the info presented in the S2's viewfinder - they need to catch up with Canon, Nikon, et al provide some real information about exposure and the amount of EC. Leica design looks clean, but having to go into a menu system to change XYZ is tedious and leads to missed shots - especially when shooting in fast paced settings.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I think this maybe the new ZD announced at Photokinia. It looks it 1.2 second frame rate

http://www.mamiya.com/mamiya-zdb-back.html#ProductOverview

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Yup

Cologne, Germany – September 19, 2008 – Mamiya Digital Imaging has announced the next model of their digital back – called the Mamiya ZDb 22 megapixel Digital Back – will be shown at Photokina 2008. To further refine the successful Mamiya ZD Digital Back system, the R&D team at Mamiya has developed the new ZDb Digital Back with several useful enhancements.

To allow longer shooting sessions, the ZDb will have a buffer with up to twice the memory of the original ZD Digital Back – this means that you can continuously shoot up to 22 frames of full resolution RAW files before the buffer is full. The new back is now compatible with SDHC (Secure Digital High Capacity) cards that can store up to 32 gigabytes of images. The Mamiya ZDb Digital Back can also use SD, SDHC, CF I and CF II cards.

When used with the new Mamiya 645AFDIII, the ZDb Back will display the camera’s 35 custom function controls on the LCD panel. This will make custom camera settings fast and user-friendly. In addition, a beta version of the new Mamiya Remote Capture software will soon be downloadable from our homepage, www.mamiya.com. This software makes shooting tethered with the Mamiya ZDb Back faster and easier.

Boasting a 22 megapixel Dalsa CCD sensor at an affordable price, the ZDb Digital Back allows the Mamiya 645AFDII, Mamiya 645AFDIII, RZ67Pro-IID and RB67Pro-SD to take razor-sharp digital images - transforming professional quality film cameras into high-end digital systems.

Pricing and delivery will be announced in the fall of 2008.

 

[NonFiction]

Does anybody have any further thoughts on the comparison between the ZD (back or body) and the CFV/503CWD Hasselblad?

 

[elgreco]

Does anybody have any further thoughts on the comparison between the ZD (back or body) and the CFV/503CWD Hasselblad?

I have used both the CFV back and ZD (body). Now, these two are very different beasts. I have not been very impressed by the image quality of the CFV as it has strong shortcomings in respect to dynamic range and colour rendition (yellow cast). The white balance has mostly been off and the display of the CFV simply does not earn to be called "display". Even though I used an external light meter (Gossen Digisix) that works great with any analogue gear I own (Hassi, Leica or Plaubel) the CFV simply would not get the exposure right. Eventually, one of the worst showstoppers of the CFV for me has always been it's firmware: Tethered shooting sometimes worked and sometimes didn't and RAW-files have had errors and sometimes could not be processed at all.

In favor of the Mamiya ZD body:
• Better display (even though still no 'good' display)
• Integrated light meter
• Compact and SLR-like look and feel
• Faster
• More reliable firmware
• Greater dynamic range
• Larger sensor
• Sharper and detail rich images
• 22 instead of 16 MP

To tell you the truth I cannot even think of one single advantage of the CFV over the ZD except, of course, that it is beautifully manufactured and looks great with a Hasselblad 503 CW. So, if you already have a Hassi equipment and would like to keep on using your gear digitally then it is CFV or nothing. In any other case I'd recommend the Mamiya ZD without restriction of any kind.

Please keep in mind that there is a revised version of the CFV, called CFV 2. I haven't used the latter myself but have heard that it features a better display and is rumored to have slightly revised sensor technology (better IR filter, maybe even a better firmware).

El.

 

[NonFiction]

ElGreco, thank you. That was exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for. I've read very positive reports on the CFV from Marc Williams, whose opinion I respect a great deal, but I've never seen it compared to the Mamiya products that I can recall.

For someone looking at the very entry level of (field usable) MFD, this would seem an apt comparison, as these two solutions pretty much comprise the entry level right now.

Thread hijack over.

 

[woodyspedden]

You should look at the threads on this forum showing absolutely amazing images from John Milich (JLM). All of these were taken with the Hassy 205TCC and the CFV (or perhaps the CFVII) back.

Woody Spedden

 

[NonFiction]

Oh, I've seen John's pictures in that thread, and been impressed, to be sure. Between him and Marc, it has seemed like a great first step into MFD, for the kind of work I do.

Currently shooting a Rolleiflex and loving it, but (old story) I'm just not crazy about scanning, or paying for scanning, or going to the lab for that matter.

When the ZD Mamiya (integral body being discussed here and the back both), I was pretty excited--in that way you get excited about a thing that might suit some future version of yourself quite nicely.

Now I'm nearing realization of that future self, and curious about the merits of the ZD and comparable systems. It's fun, and cheap, to do it this way.