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Mamiya ZD body - anybody here using one?

John Black

Active member
There's a power save function that delays start up. I don't have the user manual handy... it's one of the custom functions.

Have you investigated any of the D lenses? They are compatible, but the ZD needs a firmware update. Supposedly cameras produced sometime after April-June, 2007 already have the correct firmware.
 

John Black

Active member
It's going very well so far. I updated the 645 Blog section earlier today with some quick pix. Weather permitting, it'll get some more testing Saturday and Sunday. Image quality is really quite good.
 

Quentin_Bargate

Well-known member
I hardly ever take my ZD camera off 50 ISO. In some situations - the studio, for example - its a big plus to have a base ISO of 50. If I was shooting Velvia, I would not have an issue with low ISO.

I also have a D700 which I use for mostly different purposes. I guess I'm a ZD old timer, having owned mine for 2.5 years now. Looking at the mad prices of new MF kit, I think I'll be keeping mine quite a while longer.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
It's going very well so far. I updated the 645 Blog section earlier today with some quick pix. Weather permitting, it'll get some more testing Saturday and Sunday. Image quality is really quite good.
John,
what are your feelings if you would have to compare the ZD to the Mamiya+P25 you had?
Would you say the P25 had 1 step less noise or 2 steps?
One thing I understand is that the DR of the P25 should be a little bit better.
Thanks for the tip regarding the power saving. I deactivated it and the AF delay is much better now.
Regards, Tom
 

John Black

Active member
Hi Thomas, you're forcing my hand a bit. It's only been a couple days with the ZD and I don't want to say anything definitive yet. So, I reserve the right to completely flip-flop :) When it comes down to file quality, I would not sell the ZD camera for a P25. Some initial impressions:

1) P25 was cleaner at ISO 50. The ZD looks slightly better than the 1Ds3, and not quite as good as the P25. This depends alot on the lighting conditions and what type of post processing is applied (pushing around shadows with levels editing, etc).

2) The ZD color is a bit more muted. Quentin's picture above shows that great color is under the surface. I need a month or two for figuring out how to maximize the color potential. The P25 had punchier color, but it always had a reddish bias. Sometimes a couple ticks on the magenta WB slider would take it out, other times the red ran through the entire file and post processing would unearth more and more red. The Kodak and Dalsa sensors have different color personalities. I also have a lot of Aptus-22 raws on hand, and I think I prefer the color sensitivity / response come out of the Dalsa chip compared to the Kodak.

3) I'm pretty confident that the ZD is beating the 1Ds3 by a wide margin when it comes to highlights. I feel like I've gained 1+ stops in the highlight range (compared to the 1Ds3). Compared to the P25 the DR is probably similar. Usually the P25 files need the lower levels raised on landscapes. With the P25 it was a good idea to meter for highlights, and then boost the shadow tones in post processing. ISO 50 was really clean, so that worked well. With the ZD, it SEEMS to take a brighter picture. i don't feel the need to boost the mid and lower tones. And it's holding highlights well. So, I think Mamiya's tone curve is biased towards getting more DR above the midpoint and they are foresaking some of the shadow detail. So far the ZD seems more workable for how I shoot. I really don't worry about clipped highlights thus far. But again, this is just the first impression, so opinions may change.

4) The sensor cast from the P25 was horrible and every file needed a LCC correction. It had the typical "Italian Flag" - greenish bias to the left, magenta bias to the right. That drove me crazy. LCC would fix 80-90% of the cast, so the net result was fine. Thus far I have not seen any signs of sensor cast from ZD. I'm sure there is some because that's the nature of things, but at least it's not jumping out and pissing me off.

5) I've tried ISO 100 alittle, seems okay. I think I'll side with Quentin - I doubt the camera will move off of ISO 50. He has the D700, I have a 1Ds3. If I needed ISO, I'll go with the Canon. If I'm happy with the ZD, the 1Ds3 will be sold and replaced with a 5DII.

I doubt I will ever go back to a P25. Yes, the files could be good, but the system came with alot of headaches. Used prices have come down considerably, but I still don't think I'd do it. The ZD camera has some brilliant features - like the multipoint AF. The AFD III probably has the same set-up. I probably wouldn't go back to an AFD II.

If I were "moving up" from a ZD, something like a H3DII-22 really interests me because I prefer integrated approach - things like a single, common battery; the LCD screen for setting the camera options, etc. For me, moving up really only buys better ISO performance. And as said earlier, if I'm going to move into the upper ISO ranges, I'd rather shoot a dSLR.

If Nikon comes out with a MX system and the ISO and AF performance is there, then that system will be very interesting. There's no way on this planet I'm giving Leica $18k for their S2. Its ergonomics & menu dependency are not well thought out. If Leica re-thinks some aspects of the S2 and gets the price in the $10k range, then I'll give it a hard look.

In the end the ZD camera is a really cheap way to shoot medium format and it will probably deliver 85-95% of the P25 / Aptus-22 quality. The P25 / Aptus-22 files are presumably better, but the ergonomics (integration) doesn't match up to the ZD. If Mamiya updated the ZD camera with a quasi modern LCD and faster, more responsive throughput, I think they could torpedo the S2. And if slapped a P30+ sensor in there, then they'd really put Leica on its heels.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
4) The sensor cast from the P25 was horrible and every file needed a LCC correction. It had the typical "Italian Flag" - greenish bias to the left, magenta bias to the right. That drove me crazy. LCC would fix 80-90% of the cast, so the net result was fine. Thus far I have not seen any signs of sensor cast from ZD. I'm sure there is some because that's the nature of things, but at least it's not jumping out and pissing me off.


I find that pretty strange . I tested the P25 in San Juan and had no color cast whatsoever. Also I shot the P30 plus at the same time and the files where very close in color. I have the P25 Plus and it is miles above the ZD in terms of speed on all counts. Color I will say the Kodak has a little more punch but I could not get the ZD off ISO 100 tops and very slow to buffer and review. Reason I sold it.
 

John Black

Active member
Quentin - Yep, it's my list of things to do. I like the new C1 version 4 layout and feel pretty comfortable with it. I think I could develop a better color profile than Phase One's "Mamiya ZD Generic". I know SilkyPix (and Raw Developer too?) gets great reviews for the ZD files.

Guy - the P25 was tested on three different 645AFDII's (and a AFD) with several different 80mm's (and 110mm & 200mm). All results had sensor cast. Phase One's response - that's normal and to use the LCC function. In the upper image the cast starts in the upper right hand corner spreads out like a puddle towards the center. Lower image has a LCC file applies to it.



I had 1000's of images with the exact same cast pattern. They all had it in the same location. Even high key shots on a white background showed the cast. Call it luck of the draw or whatever you like, but a spade is a spade.
 

Chuck Jones

Subscriber Member
Quentin, you and John both should try the latest version of RAW Developer on your ZD files. The difference is pretty amazing.
 

John Black

Active member
Hi Chuck, it's on the never-ending "to do" list :) I've heard good things about both these programs. SilkyPix is supposedly good for portrait type work, but not for landscapes, etc due to the "paintery effect".
 

Quentin_Bargate

Well-known member
Hi Chuck, it's on the never-ending "to do" list :) I've heard good things about both these programs. SilkyPix is supposedly good for portrait type work, but not for landscapes, etc due to the "paintery effect".
John,

Turn down NR in SilkyPix and the the painterly effect is eliminated.

What I like about SilkyPix are the colours and the comprehensive workflow, including perspective control and lens correction (not just CA, but barrel and pincusion distortion) built in.
 

John Black

Active member
I tried RAW Developer - very different look than C1 v4.1.x. RAW Developer is an exercise in subtlety. C1's changes are very broad and quick; RAW Developer can be tuned considerably more - all in very fine levels. Information overload at the moment...

Quentin, I'll try SilkyPix this week. I'm still trying to wrap my head around RAW Developer - it's like loading a whole new film into a camera. I think I had RAW Develop on the computer for the M8. Not sure why I had it...
 

John Black

Active member
Chuck - is there a forum that specializes in RAW Developer? The help file is on the thin side and I'm trying to understand what several parameters do. Thus far I've used RD a couple times with the ZD, but mostly for the M8. I have to say, for the M8 it's been an impressive application. I ran some 1Ds3 files through it too and preliminary results look nice also.
 
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